NanoClaw Moved from Apple Containers to Docker
83 points by simplesort 5 hours ago | 60 comments

_pdp_ 9 minutes ago
You don't need to use OpenClaw, NanoClaw or any of these new variants. You can literally use Codex, Claude Code, Gemini, OpenCode for the same thing. The only thing that it is missing from all of them is the communication channels because none of them come with native communication tools like OpenClaw.

But this is not such a big deal.

I made an open-source lightweight daemon in Go that fills that gap. All it does is to provide the means to connect to popular messaging systems like Slack, Discord, WhatsApp, Telegram, etc. and expose this all through the CLI.

The project is hosted here: https://github.com/pantalk/pantalk

My personal realisation recently has been that the unix way is the best way. We just need to go back creating daemons and lightweight composable CLIs and let agents do their thing. They are increasing being trained to operate the command-line and they are getting pretty good at it.

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botusaurus 4 hours ago
> But NanoClaw isn't just my personal project anymore. Thousands of people are using it. People are running production workloads on it. Businesses are building on it. There's a real community now.

as OpenClaw and now NanoClaw became "enterprise", now we need a new FemtoClaw to pick up the indie/boutique place

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daemonologist 2 hours ago
I'm sure whatever LLM FemtoClaw calls out to will also write a blurb about its growing adoption in production enterprise applications. This sentiment is probably very well represented in the training data.
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Tt6000 4 hours ago
How is this "becoming enterprise"? If anything it now defaults to millions of Linux users being able to access it
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wat10000 16 minutes ago
We need to go the other direction. GigaClaw eats $100,000/month in tokens and requires a Threadripper with 256GB of RAM on a gigabit connection just to handle the orchestration.
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Someone 3 hours ago
Could also make the other part ‘smaller’ and use nail, hoof or dewclaw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewclaw)
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arcanemachiner 4 hours ago
Well, there was Picoclaw, but I think it was renamed to Clawlet.
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imiric 3 hours ago
That's old news. Now there's Plancklaw, renamed to ∅. It has no code base, no bugs, no security issues, infinitely scalable, and all the features of every other *claw.
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guld 2 hours ago
Well actually there is ROE.md, no code, just a Markdown file to generate a claw.
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wolpoli 2 hours ago
The code is always generated using the latest LLM, ensuring that it takes advantage of the latest architectures and programming language features.
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Rapzid 57 minutes ago
MicroClaw.. No fear of it becoming corporate LOL.
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stavros 4 hours ago
For my version of the AI assistant, I used a Docker container and Unix permissions:

https://github.com/skorokithakis/stavrobot

All plugins run in one Docker container, but they're isolated from each other by different *nix users, so they can't read each other's files. That's much more lightweight, and you don't have to run one container per plugin.

Crucially, plugins can't read each other's secrets or modify each other's code. I even have a plugin configuration webpage that doesn't go through an LLM, so the LLM never sees your secrets if you don't want to.

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amelius 4 hours ago
Putting these NanoClowns inside a container will not protect you from all kinds of safety hazards.
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andai 4 hours ago
That's the fun part! You spend all day hardening it... run it in docker in a vm on a separate machine. And then you hook it up to your gmail and give it unrestricted internet access :)
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arcanemachiner 4 hours ago
Wearing a seatbelt will not protect you from all kinds of car accidents.
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amelius 4 hours ago
Yes. That's why you don't put a Clown behind the steering wheel.
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weinzierl 3 hours ago
It is more like getting in the car with Stuntman Mike. The risk is not that the driver might make a mistake but that it actively turns against you and a container is not a security boundary against an adversary.
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bdcravens 3 hours ago
Tesla Robotaxi says hold my beer
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InsideOutSanta 4 hours ago
Wearing a helmet will not protect you from all injuries caused by jumping off a cliff.

Point is, don't jump off a cliff.

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troupo 3 hours ago
The nature of these tools is that you tell them not to jump off a cliff, so they ride the bicycle over it. Or a car. Or "you're completely right. I assumed it was possible to fly". Or...
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refsys 3 hours ago
or you pass by graffiti telling it to jump off a cliff, written in iambic pentameter (or whatever is the jailbreak meta of the month)
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einarfd 2 hours ago
I’ve been building sandboxing for Claude code workloads. So I can let it run wild without breaking my computer. Originally I used docker, but I’m now in the process of jettisoning that, and switching to qemu.

For my use case I want ssh access and being able to use docker in docker. This allows for things like test containers and docker compose. You can get all of that working with docker. But you kind of have to fight docker the whole way.

NanoClaw might have different needs, and docker could work better for it, and I hope so for their sake. But I’m not optimistic.

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Xx_crazy420_xX 3 hours ago
I can't believe the solution is creating uncompatibile branch and forcing users to use cladue for resolving merge conflits. Why not bake in the dual compatibility?
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jimmydoe 2 hours ago
you may slot in podman, but apple container is not very good atm.
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arsalanb 2 hours ago
I'm surprised that the developer experience around sandboxing on macOS is generally so bad. Seatbelt is in limbo and apple containers are just a pain to work with as some have highlighted in this thread
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ed_mercer 3 minutes ago
Is there any developer experience on Apple products that isn’t bad?
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brcmthrowaway 4 hours ago
Can someone explain the special sauce of the claws compared to just use claude.ai etc
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lm28469 3 hours ago
There is no special sauce, it's mass hysteria driven by fake adoption metrics and people who don't know anything about computers who let "agents" run free on theirs. It's the equivalent of showing a magician cut a women in a box in half to a 5 years old kid... Put them in the same category as the neckbeards getting a hard on every 3 weeks for the past 2 years when they get to see the new version of ThE PeLiCaN On A BiCyCle... I wonder how long the circus will keep on going, at least it's funny to witness from the outside
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stavros 4 hours ago
They're "always" running, so they can notify you out of the blue, without you having to initiate a conversation. It's really nice UX to get a message from my assistant saying "hey, it's time to leave for the gym, and don't forget the supermarket bag because you're picking up milk on the way back, as you've run out".
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mpweiher 2 hours ago
Dunno, my calendar reminds me "out of the blue", without me having to initiate a conversation, that it's time to leave for the gym, no "claw" or "ai" involved.

I always have my backpack with me, so if I need milk I can pick it up on the way back. And I am pretty sure that I have to notice if I need milk myself.

The tech sounds cool, but whenever I hear about actual applications, I don't see the point.

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stavros 56 minutes ago
If you don't have a need for a personal assistant, that's fine, not everyone does. That doesn't mean nobody does.

The milk thing was just an example of a tool that can intelligently combine things for you, not a literal "it's a calendar with a milk function".

This is a bit like "if I want to call my friends, I have a phone a home, why would I need a mobile?" which somewhat betrays a lack of imagination.

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olyjohn 39 minutes ago
You're just not providing any good examples of what I cant already do with current automation tools.
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dgellow 60 minutes ago
Everything I’ve seen about it feels so over engineered
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netsharc 3 hours ago
Hmm, Google Gemini has access to my Google Tasks and can set reminders. It's also asked me if I want it to check something at "tomorrow 9am", and when I said yes, it managed to do that.
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stavros 3 hours ago
Yeah, that's kind of like it. Agents just have many many more integrations, so they can do many more things. For example, it knows all my preferences, and can search for flights and say things like "this one is more expensive, but skipping the morning wakeup is worth the $20".
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caminante 3 hours ago
But have you had consistently good experience with Google Gemini and Google apps? Or read the mixed reviews?

For me, Gemini has been hit or miss and somehow less useful than Assistant was 2+ years ago.

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netsharc 2 hours ago
The coding assistant for VSCode is nuts (i.e. gets it wrong a lot, also one time it just got so confused).

I have Gemini Pro for free for a year because I bought a Pixel phone, it answers very fast, so I like it. Let's see how I'll feel about shelling out real money when the subscription ends. But on the phone, I still use Assistant (and just have a shortcut to launch the webpage in my browser), because the phone was forcing Gemini, but after 5 minutes of usage I found it was slower for my usages (usually I just tell it to set an alarm and add a reminder/calendar event), and when I asked about my tasks, Gemini would get the task listing from Google Tasks, and keep it in its history... that'll pollute my chat history!

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dimitri-vs 4 hours ago
How would it know you've ran out of milk?
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stavros 4 hours ago
I told it when I noticed. I made a little pendant with a mic I can speak into and it goes to the bot.
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LeafItAlone 4 hours ago
I would love to hear more about this!
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stavros 3 hours ago
I haven't written it up yet but the repo is here:

It's just a MEMS mic, a battery, and an ESP32, very simple but it works amazingly well. I wrote a companion Android app for it and it works extremely reliably!

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liminal-dev 2 hours ago
Are you running NanoClaw or a different project?
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imiric 3 hours ago
Turns out Humane was ahead of its time.
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brcmthrowaway 4 hours ago
How do people afford this?
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andoando 3 hours ago
Claude max $100 is way more usage than I need. And yeah its not running all the time, just has a heartbeat file telling it how to check something and run
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stavros 3 hours ago
A subscription, really. It doesn't actually run all the time, it just has a cron job that makes it feel that way.
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gas9S9zw3P9c 3 hours ago
It can schedule stuff and run in a loop, so it's like claude combined with cron. Truly amazing technology.
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sailfast 3 hours ago
Crons. A local daemon. System access as a user with the ability to listen to changes. Some idea of shared “memory” between sessions. Provider agnostic about AI. Multi-model.
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ed_mercer 2 minutes ago
Can you elaborate on “listen for changes”? AFAIK it can’t do that and needs cron jobs to check.
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dimitri-vs 4 hours ago
It's for people that don't know how or don't want to be bothered with setting up a messenger integration and a scheduler.
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saberience 4 hours ago
There is no special sauce. They are claude or codex in a loop. The loop is facilitated by basic cron jobs. That's it.

Ai Agent as it has been for months, plus skills, plus a cron job to prompt it to do things every 20 minutes or 2 hours or however often you want.

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boywitharupee 4 hours ago
they have a watchdog loop, it runs periodically
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ericbuildsio 3 hours ago
Sensible, this broadens our hosting options.
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sergiotapia 2 hours ago
I installed nanoclaw last night funny to see it here on HN.

It was easy to install it, and get it running. I could @Andy message it on whatsapp but after that it fell apart fast.

I asked it to login to Facebook and check my notifications, and it started saving credentials and random things in the repo as json files. And din't work. It was hard to even figure out what was happening and why it didn't work.

Then I tried messaging it again and it didn't respond to me.

These things are extremely brittle despite the enourmous amount of github stars. I think it's just normies starring things trying to get on the train unfortunately. The promise of an AI Jarvis is unrealized still.

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gre 3 hours ago
apple container is really buggy with networking
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Y-bar 2 hours ago
That’s not the fault of containers, I have significant Bluetooth and WiFi issues on my apple devices without running any containers.
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benatkin 4 hours ago
So they're making it use OCI images? Cool. Hopefully there will be good support for Podman.
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funkaster 4 hours ago
apple containers also run on OCI images: https://github.com/apple/container?tab=readme-ov-file#contai...

> The tool consumes and produces OCI-compatible container images...

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john_alan 3 hours ago
Use containerd , Docker is cancer.
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