Linux is an interpreter
132 points by frizlab 6 hours ago | 20 comments

tosti 8 minutes ago
This article was painful to read because of all the misconceptions. A cpio archive is not a filesystem. Author uses initramfs, which is based on tmpfs. Linux can extract cpio to tmpfs. An archive of files and directories is in itself not a program.

Just because something looks similar doesn't mean it's equivalent. Binary programs are executed on the CPU, so if there's an interpreter involed it's hiding in the hardware environment. That's outside the scope of an OS kernel.

If you have a shell script in your filesystem and run it, you need to also provide the shell that interprets the script. Author omits this detail and confuses the kernel with the shell program.

Linux can easily be compiled without support for initramfs and ramdisk. It can still boot and run whatever userland sits in the filesystem.

"Linux initrd interpreter" hurts my brain. That's not how it works.

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vatsachak 3 hours ago
Isn't every OS an interpreter for machine code with kernel privileges?
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astralbijection 3 hours ago
This one is an interpreter for CPIO files.
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TZubiri 4 hours ago
From earlier in the series.

"Okay, so the reason I initially did this was because I didn’t want to pay Contabo an extra $1.50/mo to have object storage just to be able to spawn VPSes from premade disk images."

I think there's a sweetspot between " I spent 50 hours to save 1.50$/mo" and "every engineer should be spending 250K$/mo in tokens".

Host employees still need to eat, if we can't afford 1.50$/mo, then we aren't really professionals and are just coasting on real infrastructure subsidized by professionals that pay for the pay-as-you-go infrastructure.

It's still possible to go even further to these extremes, there's thousands of developers that just coast by on github pages and vercel subdomains. So at least having a VPS puts you ahead of that mass competitively, but trying to save 1.50$/mo is a harsh place to be. At that point I don't think that the technical skills are the bottleneck, it's more likely that there's some social work that needs to be done, and that obsessing over running doom on curl is not a very productive use of one's time in a critical economic spot.

I write this because I am in that spot, but perhaps I'm reading a bit much into it.

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bityard 2 hours ago
The author did write that, yes. But it's very obviously a joke. The real reasons are literally the very next paragraph:

> I thought it was a neat trick, a funny shitpost that riffs on the eternal curl | sh debate. I could write a blog post about it, I tell you about how you can do it yourself, one thousand words, I learn something, you learn something, I get internet points, win win.

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cardanome 3 hours ago
> it's more likely that there's some social work that needs to be done, and that obsessing over running doom on curl is not a very productive use of one's time in a critical economic spot.

It can be a problem but it can be also just a human following their special interests that give them joy.

For me as a ADHD person engaging with my special interests is a hard requirement to keep my mental health in check and therefore a very good use of my time.

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PhilipRoman 3 hours ago
That sounds like something I would've done... When I was a kid, the 5€/month for a VPS was a massive expense, to the point where I occasionally had to download my 10GB rootfs to my mom's windows laptop, terminate the instance and then rebuild it once I had enough money. Eventually I got an old Kindle that was able to run an app called Terminal IDE which had a Linux shell with some basic programs like busybox, gcc. Spartacus Rex, if you're out there, thank you for making my entire career possible.
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miki123211 55 minutes ago
And I think this point is heavily under-appreciated in the cloud Vs. on prem debate.

The cost for 1 hour of cloud CPU time is the same (barring discounts), no matter who you are. THe cost for 1 hour of engineer time varies wildly. If you're a non-profit or a solo dev, you may even consider that cost to be "free."

If your engineer costs are far lower than what AWS assumes they are, going with AWS is a stupid decision, you're far better off using VPSes / dedicated servers and self-hosting all the services you need to run on top.

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jmalicki 4 hours ago
I like the term host employee, carrying the LLM parasite as it uses us to embody itself and reproduce into the singularity.
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GranPC 3 hours ago
I think they meant employees from the hosting company. But that's a funny interpretation!
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pwdisswordfishy 3 hours ago
> if we can't afford 1.50$/mo, then we aren't really professionals and are just coasting on real infrastructure subsidized by professionals

This is a strange claim.

Whether someone is getting paid or not to do something is what determines who is a professional, not whether or how much they're paying someone else. (And that's the only thing that matters, unlike the way that "professional" is used as a euphemism in Americans' bizarre discursive repertoire.)

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TZubiri 2 hours ago
I think the sense of the word professional here is not as a boolean professional/amateur, but the sense of professionalism, the characteristic of taking business seriously, not letting personal matters intervene, and in this case, investing into tools.

To put an example, suppose you hire a painter, and they show up with non-work attire, no ladder, no brush, they ask you to buy a can of paint for them and a brush. Compared to a contractor that bills you flat and brins their own ladder, has work clothing and shoes, an air pneumatic spray painter, a breathing mask. Who is more professional?

It's part of a broader debate for sure, OP seems to have done it more for the experience than to actually save 1.50$.

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bigyabai 40 minutes ago
It always depends on results. It can be unprofessional to design a system that takes an external variable like S3 for granted, especially if it's not needed. As long as the hack isn't worse than the official $1.50 happy-path, you might as well save the end-customer a monthly fee and reduce your attack surface.

I think hacks like these have a positive effect on the industry. It pushes back on meaningless, encroaching monetization and encourages Conatbo to reevaluate their service offerings to ensure they justify the price.

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astralbijection 4 hours ago
... I think you're reading a bit much into it. It's less that I couldn't afford to pay that, and more that I didn't want to pay that, and iterating on the solution I used to dodge that led me down a giant rabbit hole of learning more about Linux while solving stupider and stupider problems posed for myself.
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jcul 4 hours ago
That four part blog was one of the most entertaining things I've read this year, thanks.

Really in the spirit of "hacker" news IMO.

I get the motivation, it's less avoiding the 1.50 per month and more like a challenge to work around it!

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hrmtst93837 3 hours ago
Calling cheap hacks unprofessional misses the point, some suprisingly portable tricks only show up when you stop paying for everything on autopilot.
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TZubiri 2 hours ago
I really get that, and I value these otherwise pointless hack articles as much as the next guy. But I think I was specifically getting at the fact that these might actually turn into an economically useful skill just by finding a sweetspot in the amount of money they can save.

1.5$/mo is still in the toy realm, (and games can be very good for practicing before the real stuff), but using tricks like this to save 50$/mo or 500$/mo or 5k$/mo or 50k$/mo and so on can definitely cross the threshold into actually (massively) useful.

The biggest challenge in crossing that bridge is matching up clients with bad engineers but good budgets, with good engineers with no budget. There's probably thousands of engineers that are currently spinning 5$/mo into impressive architecture for their blog or their 2 user startup, and clients throwing buckets of cash into tokens and zapier/n8n. The world needs Cupids that match those together.

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shevy-java 4 hours ago
Well - Linux is kind of like a somewhat generic interface to have actionable, programmable tasks. One could use Windows for this too, but IMO Linux is in general better suited for that task.

The only area I think Windows may be better is the graphical user interface. Now, the windows interface annoys me to no ends, but GNOME annoys me and KDE annoys me too. I have been more using fluxbox or icewm, sometimes when I feel fancy xfce or mate-desktop, but by and large I think my "hardcore desktop days" are over. I want things to be fast and efficient and simple. Most of the work I do I handle via the commandline and a bit of web-browsing and writing code/text in an editor, for the most part (say, 95% of the activities).

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chickensong 2 hours ago
> I want things to be fast and efficient and simple.

Sway + foot with keybinds to provision each workspace to your liking is pretty nice. No desktop, but really flies for your use case (mine also). Bind window focus to your most comfortable keys.

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ux266478 3 hours ago
> The only area I think Windows may be better is the graphical user interface.

Nah. You're right about Gnome and KDE, but Windows is even worse because you can't exactly escape away from microsoft's insane labyrinth or awful wm. Frankly, not a fan of the Xerox bloodline of desktop interfaces in general. mpx/mux heritage is the one I like. 9wm, cwm or dwm. Closer to Engelbart and just generally all around better.

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