Number in man page titles e.g. sleep(3)
109 points by thunderbong 11 hours ago | 62 comments

mjlee 10 hours ago
If you like man trivia (and why else would you be reading this?) you could check out the top comment at https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/405783/why-does-man...

(discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27994194)

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jedberg 5 hours ago
Another fun related one: If your username is Tyler and you run shutdown, instead of the usual message it will say "Oh, good morning Mr. Tyler, going down?"

Discovered this in college when I was shoulder surfing a coworker who always used the username Tyler. When he typed shutdown I called it out, and he said, "wait, it doesn't do that for you? I always assumed it said that for everyone and just replaced the username!".

(For those of you too young to know, it's a reference to an Aerosmith song)

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qiine 8 hours ago
"The developer of the man-db, Colin Watson, decided that there was enough fun and the story won't get forgotten"

Haha! Adequate amount of fun was provided, please resume regular man activities.

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porise 10 hours ago
Reading this makes me wonder if Easter eggs are ever appropriate for something as ubiquitous as man.
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embedding-shape 7 hours ago
Personally I think ubiquitous software is even more important to have Easter eggs, because they're the most widely distributed, and we want as much joy as we could possibly have, before you know.
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jedberg 5 hours ago
Almost everything had an easter egg in it back in the day. When computing was more fun and less serious.

They fell out of favor when people realized they were a security issue, because it was a code path that rarely got tested.

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embedding-shape 5 hours ago
No, proper easter eggs don't introduce security issues, they're benign almost by definition. I think what made them disappear was the introduction of all the suit-wearing people who decide what the programmers are supposed to program, with no room for autonomous work within that.
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jedberg 4 hours ago
> proper easter eggs don't introduce security issues

Proper code doesn't either, and yet there they are! The point is they added another attack surface, however small, and another code path that should be tested.

When people started to care about 100% test coverage, they started to disappear.

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embedding-shape 4 hours ago
> The point is they added another attack surface, however small, and another code path that should be tested.

I dunno, "attack surface" to me means "facilitate opening/vulnerability somehow" and none of the easter egg code I've seen has done that. You have any concrete examples where a easter egg made possible a security vulnerability that wouldn't be possible otherwise?

But yes, another code path created by easter eggs that wasn't tested I've seen countless of times, but never been an issue, but maybe our easter eggs always been too small in scope for that.

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jedberg 4 hours ago
The most famous is the Xbox hack that was only possible because of an Easter Egg:

https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/144202/are-ther...

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xoxxala 5 hours ago
Or they were removed for other reasons than security.

In Star Trek: 25th Anniversary, we had a hidden animation of Captain Kirk's toupee jumping off his head and running out of the room. It was caught before release and they made us take it out since no one wanted to piss off William Shatner.

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bombcar 8 hours ago
Easter eggs are always appropriate but it is imperative (and important) to understand how they could affect anything and everything.

Which means you need to usually make it explicit to call them (man --abba or something) than something that "surprises" the user.

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cozzyd 5 hours ago
A great innovation over simple AB testing
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gerikson 10 hours ago
> (... less common section numbers)

One very important section number is 5 - it's for file formats. So if you forget the crontab format, you need to invoke `man 5 crontab` to read about it.

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linsomniac 9 hours ago
... because if you do `man crontab` you get section 1, which does not document the crontab fields.
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voidUpdate 8 hours ago
In fact, the only reference to crontab(5) is in the SEE ALSO section (on my version anyway), but that doesn't say why you might want to see crontab(5), just that it exists. That is spectacularly useless
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inejge 6 hours ago
> That is spectacularly useless

Depends. If one is aware of the meaning of section numbers, that "(5)" is very obviously suggesting that there is a file format named "crontab" which is documented. It's also pretty reasonable to suppose that the command and the file format of the same name are related.

A novice might miss the convention and the connection. Man pages are not quite novice material.

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simoncion 5 hours ago
Hell, you don't even have to have a handle on what the section numbers mean for these things to be useful. The appearance of something in a "SEE ALSO" section indicates that the manual page author thought that that thing was both related to the thing being documented and worth reading if the current man page didn't answer all of your questions.

I can't count the number of times that following the trail laid out by 'SEE ALSO' sections a step or three has lead me to the exact thing that I never knew I needed to be using. Chasing those sections down is almost always well worth the three to ten minutes spent.

And, like, if one is expecting a man page to cover in detail everything even vaguely related to what it documents, and one doesn't feel one has ten minutes to spend reading things that people thought were important to bring to your attention... well, I guess one could go ask an LLM to slop out some related words. That'll probably take less than ten minutes, though correctness is not at all guaranteed.

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IshKebab 9 hours ago
That is incredibly stupid. A documentation system designed by someone who doesn't understand how people use documentation.

If man was designed by someone with any taste at all it would at least give you a menu to select (1) crontab command, (5) crontab file format. Maybe we need a rewrite in Rust to fix that.

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dualvariable 3 hours ago
I hope this was just some over the top sarcasm.
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t-3 6 hours ago
There are a multitude of manpagers and viewers and frontends. It's one of those things you can write yourself very easily.
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bpt3 8 hours ago
Or a minor alteration to an existing program to support a good suggestion.

Why is it that the Rust community thinks that the solution to every flaw in an application is a rewrite in Rust?

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mattkrause 7 hours ago
It might be more helpful to write a Rust-based snark detector first.
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bpt3 6 hours ago
Could be, but I don't think so in this case given a cursory review of the parent poster's history.
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ajross 7 hours ago
> If man was designed by someone with any taste at all it would at least give you a menu [...]

My goodness. Man was written on a paper teletype.

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SoftTalker 5 hours ago
And since man pages could take minutes to print out, if you needed one you'd tear that section of paper off and keep it in a binder for future (and faster) reference.
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rascul 8 hours ago
It does that, depending on implementation.
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LtWorf 4 hours ago
It seems it has been done already a while ago without waiting for the rust community to do their usual churn.

https://imgur.com/a/kEkmRxx (link shows a screenshot of khelpcenter showing the different manpages available for crontab)

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driftcoder 7 hours ago
man -k crontab is the real trick here. shows both sections so you don't have to already know the number exists.
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voidUpdate 7 hours ago
It only shows a description though.

Incidentally, man --help on my machine shows "-k, --apropos equivalent to apropos", which isn't very useful. I know the two are equivalent, because they're on the same line of switches, what does it actually do?

With some further man digging, apropos is actually a separate program that looks through man page names/descriptions for the argument. Unless you run it with no arguments, in which case it just outputs "apropos what?" Instead of an actual error message like "No search term provided" or something

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simoncion 5 hours ago
> Incidentally, man --help on my machine shows "-k, --apropos equivalent to apropos", which isn't very useful.

That's your hint to execute either 'man apropos' or 'man man'. Both tell you in detail what the flag and utility do.

You seem likely to be very disappointed in the '-h'/'-H' output of utilities from the BSD tradition. The output is often a list of all of the (almost always exclusively short) options presented as a sea of characters... and nothing else.

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beej71 7 hours ago
My favorite piece of man trivia is from the source of the tunefs BSD man page, which contains:

    .\" Take this out and a Unix Daemon will dog your steps from now until
    .\" the time_t's wrap around.
    .Pp
    You can tune a file system, but you cannot tune a fish.
https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/blob/main/sbin/tunefs...
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pwdisswordfishy 6 hours ago
You can tune a fish, it's that the command for that is fish_config instead.
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gmassman 7 hours ago
I guess the joke is you can scale a file system or a fish, but can only tune a file system?
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fragmede 7 hours ago
Tuna is a type of fish so the joke is that they sound the same.
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SoftTalker 5 hours ago
There was also the record You Can Tune a Piano, but You Can't Tuna Fish by REO Speedwagon, I had assumed that's what the tunefs man page was referencing as that was a best-selling record at around the time Unix was being developed.
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throwanem 5 hours ago
Yes. It had been a popular joke in the US, I believe about a generation before. (Probably the joke came in around the same time as canned tuna.)
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mbo 2 hours ago
Note that this is contrary to the convention used in the Erlang community, where the number is used to disambiguate function definitions with different parameter counts, e.g. in https://www.erlang.org/docs/18/man/supervisor.html we see definitions of `start_link/2` and `start_link/3`.

It is a stylistic convention to always add this number to any reference to a function, even if there is only one definition.

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PhilipRoman 9 hours ago
Interestingly, the section doesn't actually have to start with a number. TCL man pages use the 'n' section and 'man' resolves them just fine despite the ambiguity. Conversely, manpage names can also start with numbers, although this is rare (I found only one such example: man 30-systemd-environment-d-generator)
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et1337 5 hours ago
Thousands of keystrokes saved by not having to type “man syscall”… and millions of hours lost by confused folks like OP (and myself)
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casey2 2 hours ago
Luckily hours lost by the incompetent don't amount to much.
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chasil 9 hours ago
The POSIX standard manual pages for the utilities can be found here:

https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/idx/xcu.htm...

These would all be in section 1, if I am correct.

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kykat 10 hours ago
I looked up what the numbers mean a couple of times, but always forget it immediately
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burnt-resistor 7 hours ago
Section meaning varies somewhat widely by *nix flavor.
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s20n 8 hours ago
For me man(3) is the most interesting of them all.

Run `apropos . | grep "(3)"`; you'll be surprised how many libraries come with man pages for their functions (e.g; curl).

Now I wonder if there are any IDEs that can automatically dial into these man pages and pull up documentation for functions?

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simoncion 5 hours ago

  apropos --sections=3 .
may be a better version of what you propose, depending on what you're looking for. On my system, this also gives me entries from sections like '3x' and '3ossl' and '3bsd'.
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burnt-resistor 7 hours ago
There's guaranteed to be some sort of context-sensitive man plugin for vim &| nvim for shell scripts.

Also, have you ever seen the DOS Borland IDE context sensitive help UX?

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skydhash 5 hours ago
I think for Vim, it’s “K”. But for emacs, you only need to use “m-x man” and have a nice viewer.
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throwanem 5 hours ago
Remarkable that no one yet here, including the article author, reports the true origin of these section numbers: they identified (depending on section size, one or a group of) physical binders in the series published by AT&T to document System V UNIX, and when you got an update to your system software, it came with a package of new manual pages which you would physically install in the binders to replace the now-superseded older versions. Everything you hate about man pages is in consequence of that origin, and of the corollary that the online version was never designed to be authoritative.

I have one of those physical binders, a volume of Section 3 for an AT&T 3B2, in the software section of my library downstairs. A beautiful artifact in every respect, of the level of quality you would imagine in the manual for a machine that cost $15,000 in the 80s.

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LtWorf 10 hours ago
Step 1: Read `man man`

Step 2: Feel the urge to write an article about that

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sakjur 10 hours ago
I admire people who do that.

Writing down what you learn cements knowledge, and sharing what you write might help someone else.

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semiquaver 7 hours ago
Ideally, read or write while listening to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_Man
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Stratoscope 10 hours ago
Is there a man man man article that will explain how to read man man?
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bombcar 8 hours ago
The full documentation for man is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the info program is properly installed at your site, the command

              info man

Ah that crap is/was so rage inducing!
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pfdietz 7 hours ago
I'm feeling old now.
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amelius 10 hours ago
Confession. I think I haven't read manpages since stackoverflow and certainly not since LLMs.

Perhaps the modern version of "man" should be a program you can talk to.

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johannes1234321 7 hours ago
That may "answer" a specific question. And all llms can do as they include manpages in training data (and any Agentic thing can search) however the value in reading documentation is that one can find different angles by learning about different options, which allow tontackle problems from a different perspective. The answer to a question is constrained by assumptions which are part of the question.
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amelius 6 hours ago
My experience with LLMs is that they often give me different angles that I didn't think of.
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xigoi 9 hours ago
Please no. I want to read the manual without having to talk to anything.
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Normal_gaussian 8 hours ago
It's called Claude. Or Gemini-cli. Or any other agent capable of running man.

"Hey <agent>, use `man` to help answer these questions about grep"

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LtWorf 5 hours ago
How do you think llms reply to you?
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nicman23 10 hours ago
i have made llms read manpages, it is great lol
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