New method turns ocean water into drinking water, without waste
91 points by speckx 5 hours ago | 46 comments

ajb 3 hours ago
There is a fundamental minimum amount of energy needed to desalinate: you can't take less energy to do it,than you could gain back (from osmotic pressure) if you allowed the desalinated water to expand a cylinder containing the residual brine. This is large. This paper is a thermal method, so it doesn't have an electricity input, but to justify their efficiency claim, they should really compare against what you could do by using the same surface area for solar panels, driving a conventional setup. My (limited) understanding is that conventional reverse osmosis is not far from the theoretical optimum, energy-wise, the main difficulties being operational (the membranes need declogging). And of course RO is more expensive than rain.

This paper is interesting, however, in directly producing crystalline salt, which is lower volume than brine and easier to dispose of, maybe even valuable.

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CuriouslyC 29 minutes ago
If this can be applied to mine effluent, you could replace the maybe with most certainly. Sulfuric acid effluent lakes leech all sorts of valuable metals out of the ground.
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xyzzyz 29 minutes ago
Brine is very easy to dispose of: you just pump it back to where it came from. Solid crystalline salt, on the other hand, is a hassle.
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ceejayoz 7 minutes ago
> Brine is very easy to dispose of: you just pump it back to where it came from.

Easy, but not necessarily good for the spot you're pumping concentrated salt back into.

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lightedman 11 minutes ago
"Solid crystalline salt, on the other hand, is a hassle."

Just make prettier-than-Himalayan salt lamps out of it and sell it to hippies. Easy solution.

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Animats 2 hours ago
The paper: [1]

They're still at lab scale in glass. They haven't built a usable system, even a small one. The big claim here is that it doesn't clog; capillary action moves the salt out of the active area to another area, where some yet to be developed mechanism removes it. That needs to be demonstrated. If they can come up with something that runs for years without clogging or replacing the active material, that's a real advance.

Laser surface preparation is known.[2] It's useful for roughening smooth surfaces in a very structured way, in preparation for painting. The result is a smooth paint surface. If you sandblast to roughen, the first paint layer is somewhat irregular. Then you need to sand and paint again to get a smooth surface. Laser roughening has been tried for auto painting, but didn't go mainstream. A good question here is whether commercial laser surface prep systems can make the material this new process uses.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41377-026-02315-4

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKYOglHYo_Y

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Nifty3929 2 hours ago
It reminds me of how the Panama canal was built, and actually the first major attempt failed and they gave up. What they learned for the second attempt was that digging was not the hard(est) part to solve - it was how to move the dirt! So much dirt!

Great book on this BTW: Path Between the Seas. I couldn't put it down.

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fhdkweig 3 hours ago
This appears to be the same New Rochester article as 4 days ago with 20 comments.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48349507

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b0rbb 2 hours ago
Awesome, love seeing stuff out of Rochester - RIT or UofR or any of the nearby schools.

Totally underrated area for academic pursuits.

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mmmBacon 2 hours ago
UofR physic grad that also worked at the LLE here. Agree Rochester schools are underrated (although admittedly a little biased).

At least in the sciences you have access to lots of opportunities you don’t have at bigger name schools.

They set me up in life in a way that I don’t think would have happened elsewhere.

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haritha-j 2 hours ago
Indeed, it’s the same university that gave us room temperature superconductors.
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dyauspitr 27 minutes ago
RIT is pretty well known as a good school I believe.
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0x59 2 hours ago
Agree! Shout out to the Laboratory for Laser Energetics
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LogicFailsMe 2 hours ago
So crazy question: take a dehumidifier, attach some solar panels, and deploy at scale for non-potable water suitable for crop irrigation anywhere that isn't a desert. Does it work? And if not, why?
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LarsAlereon 45 minutes ago
It takes too much energy and produces water too slowly to scale. In general any area with sufficient moisture in the air to explore this also has easier access to rain and ground water.
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LogicFailsMe 39 minutes ago
Great point, in my case in the PNW, the water from my local well is infested with manganese (as in clogging the household plumbing in the absence of a sediment filter) and other contaminants and the water company providing it is owned by private equity. Legally, I can drill my own well for non-potable irrigation, but god forbid I filter and/or chlorinate it for my own household use. So I end up considering options like this, thanks for debunking.
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mrguyorama 50 minutes ago
It "works" in the sense that this is what 99% of "Get water from air" scams are.

The reason it doesn't actually work is that it is extremely inefficient. Getting water to condense requires you to somehow reject massive quantities of heat. That's fundamental to physics.

Also, literally anywhere a dehumidifier is reasonably effective, is humid and usually doesn't have such dire water problems. Deserts have extremely low humidity and dehumidifiers working in a desert will produce very little water.

Even a good humidifier in a humid environment is burning KW to generate on the order of ten liters of water a day.

There are a couple places on earth that are essentially deserts but have an early morning humid fog roll through regularly, and those places figured out capturing that water in the air long long before we invented the refrigeration cycle.

It is literally cheaper to desalinate.

Maybe you could build giant greenhouses to fill with sea water and let the sun evaporate the water and collect that with a dehumidifier? Still absurdly inefficient. Water has such an obscene specific capacity for heat that any thermal avenue of separating it from something else will use immense energy.

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casey2 50 minutes ago
What do you mean work? No, because there is no single dehumidifier on the market that will get you enough water, so you are out $80 grand, you could have just paid for water delivery.
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scythe 2 hours ago
They are talking about lithium recovery, but there is a less exotic byproduct I'm interested in. One tonne (≈ 1 m^3) of seawater contains about 1.3 kilograms of magnesium, equivalent to about 4 kg of magnesite ore. Typical desal prices are on the order of $1 per tonne. Magnesite ore goes for about $100 per tonne, so the crude magnesium in a tonne of seawater is worth about $0.40, which could account for a substantial fraction of the desalination cost. (These numbers are very rough.)

Now you ask: why don't we just recover magnesium from brines if it's so great? Magnesium recovery from seawater isn't that easy: typically you have to treat it with some kind of alkali (often Ca(OH)2), so the cost is dominated by the extraction process (your alkali is consumed!), and you're competing with a pretty cheap ore. But if you have a solid byproduct, instead of a liquid, the options for magnesium recovery might be a lot more efficient, potentially offsetting the cost.

The fourth-most-prevalent ion, sulfate, might also be interesting, at least in a hypothetical post-petroleum future where sulfur as a byproduct of fossil fuel extraction is no longer "free". Sulfate is also annoying to extract from seawater, but again if we have a solid, the rules change.

As for the "table" salt itself, I think we'd quickly saturate (!) the market.

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photochemsyn 23 minutes ago
After looking at the paper, this looks like the core result:

“We collected a total of 9.3 g freshwater along with 0.343 g of sea salt from the ABF-STIC with a 9 cm2 surface area over the course of 9 hours. This is equivalent to generating 10.33 liters m−2 of freshwater and 0.38 kg m−2 of sea salt per day. The salinity of the desalinated water is found well below the WHO and EPA standards for safe drinking water.”

However the enclosure system required looks rather complicated and might be sensitive to external temperature (maybe a solar PV-powered cooling loop would help) and I imagine the cost-per-square-meter of the material is rather high, so this looks more like something for emergency response situations or maybe a desal system for a mega-yacht. If it could be scaled the idea is interesting, maybe as lithium separation from concentrated geological brines?

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kogasa240p 2 hours ago
Probably some of the best news I've seen in a while.
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fluorinerocket 58 minutes ago
Can we please ban university press releases
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mkl 3 hours ago
> without waste

...except for the huge piles of salt.

If the salt was not waste, surely people would already be extracting it from the brine and the existing methods would also be "without waste".

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eimrine 3 hours ago
Persian Gulf has 20% more salt in water because of the humans which are throwing the oversalinated waste back into the sea. Dehidrated salt may be a big deal for some areas because of no waste into input.
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Jblx2 2 hours ago
>Persian Gulf has 20% more salt in water because of the humans

I would like to read more about this from an authoritative source.

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tdb7893 2 hours ago
Through the magic of Googling "Persian Gulf salinity" it seems like it's more that it's a shallow Gulf in a dry area so it has significant evaporation. Desalination does effect it but it's only a few percent of the total evaporation (which is still surprisingly big) and doesn't sound like the main driving factor or an imminent ecological concern.

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S14635...

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Jblx2 58 minutes ago
I thought the HN-way was to be more charitable than just directly calling out obvious bullshit.
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ImPostingOnHN 2 hours ago
So now they'll throw the dehydrated brine into the sea?

Or set up an expensive refining operation to get heavy metals, etc out?

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doublerabbit 3 hours ago
What about removing oil from water, have we conquered that yet?
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phtrivier 2 hours ago
"in mice". No, wait, that auto-reply is for cancer breakthrough.

Let me check, is that a wonderful battery ? Nope.. A promising fusion ? Neither...

Ok, so this must be the fourth kind of pseudo-wonder discovery that will maybe make it out of the lab in 20 years, if the research team managed to get scraps of funding while VC pick the next way to waste pensioners money.

Anyway, whenever they have desalinated enough water to get each researcher a pint, the round is on me.

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kaonwarb 3 hours ago
This reads like hyperbole:

> The brine byproduct wreaks havoc on sea life when it’s deposited back into the ocean by raising the salt level and lowering oxygen in the water.

Managing return of concentrated brine should be entirely tractable in the literal ocean.

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rconti 3 hours ago
Sure, but typically desalination plants are located in a single physical place, so a discharge pipe dumping brine 24x7 is bad for all of the things around it, as the local concentration is extremely high.
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joshred 3 hours ago
Seems like you could run a long perforated tube to diminish that effect.
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dieselgate 3 hours ago
I wonder what the linear diffusion gradient would look like for that. Like the perforated garden hoses or whatever for soaking soil. Aquatic organisms grow so quick though very curious on the constraints for something like this.
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dylan604 3 hours ago
I liked the idea of loading it up on a ship that sails out releasing as it goes out and back. Make it solar powered or even go old school with literal sails.
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sgc 3 hours ago
I thought they tend to pipe far out and discharge as far below the surface as possible, since there is a lot of surface life and it is less damaging this way.

Ships (with long submerged pipes) would be prone to weather events and generally less reliable than an installed pipe. Perforation would be prone to clogging from build up so a nonstarter I would expect. Adding flex tubing and a relocation robot would be a maintenance headache as well. Not sure there is an easy optimization.

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scythe 2 hours ago
If you want to be really clever about it, maybe the ship is powered by the brine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmotic_power

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gibspaulding 2 hours ago
I like this! Though I’m not sure the math works. That page says ideal efficiency for that system would be something like 0.75 kWh/m^3. Compared to 4000 to 5000 kWh/m^3 of diesel. Now we don’t need to be efficient since the point is to use up our “fuel” and we don’t need to cary cargo for this to make sense but with numbers like that, I don’t think our boat will be able to make enough power to move at all.
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01100011 3 hours ago
And it doesn't even need to be a rigid pipe. A flexible pipe made out of, say, waterproof fabric, could be cheaply made to extend miles while remaining open due to the pressure of the water pumped into it.
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dylan604 3 hours ago
Things left underwater tend to collect things on it which would make this much less porous over time.
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bilsbie 30 minutes ago
The brine thing is just a way to shut down conversation and let people feel superior for claiming there are no solutions to our problems except to reduce our standard of living.

It’s obvious you can safely put salt back into the ocean with enough dilution. I bet a middle schooler could design a system to do it.

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gausswho 2 hours ago
It kinda depends where it's deposited, right? The expected AMOC collapse is fundamentally about salt imbalance.
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wolfi1 3 hours ago
depends of course, how easy does the brine dissolve, how long does it take that it is so diluted that it can't do any harm, without that information it's not easy to tell
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dylan604 3 hours ago
These are often built near shallower parts along the coast where changes are more pronounced.
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boxed 2 hours ago
I mean.. we really want to permanently desalinate the ocean somewhat too so putting the brine back seems kinda stupid. Put it on land, let it dry, sell some as table salt and dump the rest into abandoned mines.
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wizzwizz4 2 hours ago
Excellent idea! The largest abandoned mines I'm aware of are salt mines, which… hang on.
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