Underarm Bowling Incident of 1981
86 points by EndXA 4 days ago | 53 comments

dvh 2 hours ago
> Bruce Edgar, who was on 102 not out, was stuck at the non-striker's end the entire over.

Now Americans can finally know how Europeans feel when watching baseball

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pdpi 21 minutes ago
It’s surprisingly simple, actually.

A cricket pitch is a long strip. Bowler bowls from one end, batter strikes the bowl from the other. Scoring is done by running from one end of that strip to the other (the unit of scoring is literally called a run). Six legal bowls make an over.

There are two batters in play at each point in time, one at each end of the pitch, and they both must run towards the other end of the pitch (therefore swapping places) to score.

Bruce Edgar had scored 102 runs, was not out (in the same sense as baseball — meaning he was still in play), but, because they either didn’t manage to score any runs, or scored twos, he spent the whole over on the non-striking side of the pitch.

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senthil_rajasek 9 minutes ago
Explaining Cricket to a Baseball fan only makes it worse.

I have tried it many times and failed.

Personally, playing a few games of cricket is the best way to learn the rules of the game.

As an example, in your explanation ( which is good to this lifelong cricket fan from India) your first sentence starts "A cricket pitch..." And when a baseball fan reads it he is probably asking "What is a pitch?"

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alt219 2 hours ago
As an American it has taken me nearly half a century of occasionally watching cricket to barely comprehend what that sentence means. I love it.
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stavros 2 hours ago
As a European, what the hell is going on.
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svat 19 minutes ago
X, who was Y, was stuck at Z the entire W.

(Bruce Edgar), who was (on (102 not out)), was stuck at (the (non-striker's end)) the entire (over).

• An “over” consists of six opportunities to hit the ball and score “runs”. (A “run” is the basic unit of scoring.)

• "102 not out" indicates how many runs the player had personally contributed to the team's score. The number is large enough to suggest that this was the player who was playing particularly well in that match.

So the sentence is saying that the player who could be expected to make good use of whichever of those six opportunities he got, did not get any of them.

I think as with most cases of unfamiliar jargon, the sentence can be confusing not because of unusual words but because of everyday words being used with technical meanings ("not out", "end", "over").

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dchest 45 minutes ago
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gib444 5 minutes ago
[delayed]
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esperent 26 minutes ago
> Americans

Everyone not from one Uk, India... maybe Australia you mean?

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shermantanktop 20 minutes ago
https://restoringhopebhm.com/blog/wilt-chamberlain-and-the-g...

By contrast, underhand free throw shooting is legal in the NBA and it is very effective. But it is seen as unmasculine rather than cheating. Players would apparently rather lose than be seen doing it.

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Brendinooo 2 hours ago
To someone who is coming in cold, this kinda feels like people saying it’s unsportsmanlike to kneel at the end of a gridiron game, or pass the ball around the backfield in stoppage time at a soccer game?
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raldi 2 hours ago
Taking a knee to lock in an American football victory used to be considered unsportsmanlike, but then the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_at_the_Meadowlands happened, where the Giants were up 17-12 with 30 seconds left and played normally. They fumbled the ball, the Eagles recovered it and scored a touchdown, the Giants' offensive coordinator was summarily fired and never worked in the NFL again, and ever since, dropping to your knee when it ensures your win is standard, accepted, and even sometimes called the Victory Formation.
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zinckiwi 2 hours ago
There is still the remote possibility of a fumble or tackling the ball away from the defence in those cases. In the underarm bowling incident it was made physically impossible to win. In baseball terms, he had to hit a home run with the ball on the ground.

(Though as a non-American, I am indeed mystified why the kneel is legal and not regarded as delay of game!)

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nkrisc 55 minutes ago
Essentially the player with the ball is going down on their own, ending the down, same as if they had ran with the ball and been tackled.

They’re considered down when their knee touches the ground while in possession of the ball (“possession” having a specific meaning, with regard to the rules). Again, this is the same as if they had been tackled. The only difference is no one forced them to the ground.

Taking a knee is not something that would normally be considered a good thing since you lose yards and a down.

As for why it’s not a delay of game, that’s likely because it does not delay the game any more than any normal play would. It probably runs down less time on the clock than if they played normally, but of course playing normally is riskier which why they take a knee. The idea is to simply run down the clock as much as possible without risking a turnover and then leaving the other team with too little time to score.

If the rules could be changed to disincentivize taking a knee I think that would be more interesting, but I’m not sure how you do that. It’s also safer in an already dangerous sport.

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bentcorner 51 minutes ago
I am a casual American football viewer but my understanding is that the kneel ends the current play but keeps the clock running. Each team has something like 40s to setup their formation and snap the ball after the previous play has ended. If the game clock is still running (this is concurrent to their 40s of "setup time"), the team that is in possession of the ball can just use the full setup time (idk the formal term for this) to just run out the game clock.

Each team has 4 attempts to move the ball forward 10 yards, where if the ball moves >= 10 yards they get a fresh set of 4 attempts. These are called "downs".

If the team has any downs left when they kneel then they can maintain possession of the ball and can thus run out the clock. Most (all?) of the time the teams end the game even if there is time left on the clock.

Note that either team can call a timeout pre-snap which freezes the game clock. Certain plays also result in the game clock freezing between plays. There is also a 2-minute warning at the end of the 2nd/4th quarter that also freezes the game clock.

IMO clock management adds a very interesting strategic layer to NFL football.

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kibwen 2 hours ago
Plenty of sports do have rules to prevent stalling tactics (either for sportsmanlike reasons or to make the viewing experience more engaging): the two-minute warning in American football, the shot clock in basketball, icing rules in hockey, etc.
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notahacker 42 minutes ago
Yeah.

Passing the ball around the backfield is a risky tactic in association football (which similarly banned the goalkeeper just picking up backpasses because it was too easy to waste time). 'Taking the ball to the corner' is a much lower risk option, but it is possible to win the ball back and quickly go up the other end and score with good play. Deliberate time wasting between plays is a yellow card offence (even though the referee could simply add the time on, it's disliked)

Plus cricket nominally has more of a sportmanship culture than most sports. "Mankading" (the practice of a bowler deciding to strike the wicket near to him instead of bowling because the runner from the other end has strayed too far[1]) is technically legal and would be considered smart play in many sports - especially since it's an action performed to stop opponents gaining a small advantage over you - but is regarded as shameful in cricket, at least not unless you've been gentlemanly enough to warn the runner at your end to stop straying forward each time the ball is bowled. Indeed it's so controversial Wikipedia maintains a 'list of incidents' page, starting with poor Vinoo Mankad who probably thought he was just being smart and didn't realise his surname would become synonymous with cheating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mankading_incidents_in...

[1]baseball fans: roughly the equivalent of a pitcher deciding in mid-pitch to throw the ball to a base to stop someone stealing bases, except the base in question is right next to him.

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Hugsbox 8 minutes ago
This article may as well be written in greek for how much of it I understand
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kiddico 2 hours ago
Cricket will never make sense to me. That just seems like playing the game.
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sejje 2 hours ago
It's a gentleman's game. Like in golf, there are expectations of behavior.

They didn't think they needed a rule.

This was what made me certain they were wrong--the commentary of their own older brother, who's hugely respected:

> As the ball was being bowled, Ian Chappell (elder brother of Greg and Trevor, and a former Australian captain), who was commentating on the match, was heard to call out "No, Greg, no, you can't do that"[10] in an instinctive reaction to the incident, and he remained critical in a later newspaper article on the incident.[11]

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kiddico 56 minutes ago
I suppose my fundamental misunderstanding is that an underarm bowl just seems like the obvious defensive move, not unsportsmanlike.

I said this in another comment and it seems relevant: "I know they're different, but in baseball the pitch is part of the game. Not being able to make good use of a pitch is a problem for the hitter, not the pitcher."

I think my baseballed mind simply cannot warp itself to your gentlemanly ways lol

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notahacker 36 minutes ago
Imagine the strike zone was just convention and pitchers were technically allowed to roll the ball if they were more bothered about preventing home runs than getting the opponent out. Think your baseball mind would be annoyed when someone did it, and the lawmakers would have to step in pretty quick to stop it being a regular thing...

(Think there's also a general prejudice against underarm play in professional sport as it's for kids who can't throw properly and feels like mockery. Underarm serves in tennis are frowned upon, even though an alert opponent has plenty of chance of scoring a point from them)

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billfor 26 minutes ago
I don't think there's a rule against rolling the ball to a batter; it would be called a ball. It would be similar to a wild pitch or an intentional walk (when you had to actually throw the 4 balls).
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srean 49 minutes ago
An under-armed ball is essentially un-hitable.

The sporting thing to do is to give the batsman a chance to score but to defeat him using skill. There is no skill in bowling and underarm ball, the batsmen is not being defeated by skill.

That said, never did I imagine that cricket would interest the HN audience.

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LastTrain 25 minutes ago
I think it is the violation of centuries old conventions and gentlemen’s agreements that maybe should have been, in hindsight, codified, that has our attention piqued
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CamouflagedKiwi 2 hours ago
It's pretty much completely not like playing the game, because the batting team can't meaningfully hit the ball.
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kiddico 2 hours ago
I know they're different, but in baseball the pitch is part of the game. Not being able to make good use of a pitch is a problem for the hitter, not the pitcher.

Now that I think of it telling a baseball pitcher that he could throw a pitch, but not too difficult of one at certain times is hilarious.

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berti 51 minutes ago
Are you allowed to pitch the baseball along the ground, therefore making it impossible to properly hit with the bat? It's no different in cricket really.
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kiddico 49 minutes ago
No. That would be a foul. It's in the book though lol.
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berti 47 minutes ago
Yeah, that was the flaw at the time, it wasn't in the book and not thought to be needed in the book.
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retsibsi 59 minutes ago
There's definitely an argument for just exploiting edge cases in the rules as hard as you can, seeing how the game evolves from there, and relying on the governing body to fix it if needed. (A la https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub .) Cricket saw itself unironically as "the gentlemen's game", though, so this didn't really fit the culture.
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ryandrake 38 minutes ago
> There's definitely an argument for just exploiting edge cases in the rules as hard as you can, seeing how the game evolves from there, and relying on the governing body to fix it if needed.

Sadly, a lot of people live their entire lives this way. Ignoring courtesy, norms, ethics, grace, walking right up to the very edge of the law and then smugly declaring “ha ha there is no rule saying I can’t do this!!” Like the annoying little brother who waves his hand a millimeter from your face saying “I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you!”

The fact that everything has to be written down or some people will exploit and take advantage is a human failing, not a feature.

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retsibsi 22 minutes ago
I'm reading a book at the moment (https://academic.oup.com/book/32137) in which the author makes a point of the distinction between "the goals of a game and our purpose in playing a game". My purpose in playing games is never winning for winning's sake, let alone winning at the cost of violating basic decency. But sometimes the purpose is best served by pursuing the goals quite single-mindedly. Competition can be fun, and some games become much more interesting when both players are really trying to win, even when this means using 'cheap' moves, learning to counter the cheap moves, etc. There's no reason this approach has to carry over into the rest of our lives; we can 'play to win' in the appropriate arenas while caring deeply about courtesy and ethics.
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raisedbyninjas 47 minutes ago
This seems to describe automobile racing.
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fwip 43 minutes ago
Really, any game that you're exploiting the rules, you should expect your opponents to get mad, and possibly your teammates and fans as well.
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retsibsi 32 minutes ago
I understand this attitude, but I think the line between tactical progress and (the bad kind of) exploiting the rules can get very fuzzy. It's arguably more interesting to do whatever the game allows, even if it seems cheap, and find out the hard way whether there are ways to counter it. Sometimes there aren't, or the counter-tactics just leave you with a more boring game (usually fixable with rule changes). But sometimes you can uncover hidden depths this way, and the opposite approach can leave a game very tactically stagnant.

(I'm of course not suggesting this was the Chappells' direct motive, or even that this incident realistically could have uncovered hidden depths in the game of cricket. But as a general philosophy I think 'playing to win' has some merit, even from a perspective that ultimately cares about the health of the game and not just about winning as a terminal goal.)

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gedy 51 minutes ago
Sure, but baseball has things like walking a batter so they can't hit. Not totally analogous here, but every sport has things like this.
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retsibsi 2 hours ago
In context, it was a bit like taking advantage of a videogame exploit that others variously hadn't discovered, thought was forbidden, or assumed would not be used by tacit agreement.
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sejje 2 hours ago
No, everyone had discovered it.

This is like taking oddjob in the final match.

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retsibsi 2 hours ago
Underarm bowling was nothing new, but I reckon some had never even thought about literally just rolling the thing.
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cjs_ac 2 hours ago
A more serious case of unsportsmanlike conduct that was (and still is) within the Laws of Cricket: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodyline
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tomlong 2 hours ago
No it is not still within the laws of cricket since the late 1930s.

You might notice the law changes section in that article, that amongst other things you can't have loads of fielders behind square on leg side now.

I would also suggest it is not considered unsportsmanlike to bowl short and aim for the head any more, but rather something people look foster's forward to seeing.

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hliyan 50 minutes ago
I was about to post the same thing when I noticed this comment.

For those who might not want to go through the article:

> ...designed to combat the extraordinary batting skill of Australia's leading batsman, Don Bradman... aimed at the body of the batsman in the expectation that when he defended himself with his bat, a resulting deflection could be caught by one of several fielders deliberately placed nearby on the leg side. At the time, no helmets or other upper-body protective gear was worn, and critics of the tactic considered it intimidating, and physically threatening in a game traditionally supposed to uphold conventions of sportsmanship.

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patwards 48 minutes ago
As an Australian, I feel like the Kiwis will always be able to hold this against us. A great shame
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RobotToaster 2 hours ago
The "hand of god" of Cricket?
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alt219 57 minutes ago
Not to take anything away from Maridona's overall excellence, but his goal was 100% illegal, just none of the referees saw his handball.

Underarm bowling was still allowed when this incident occurred and was therefore legal, just considered very unsportsmanlike and outside the spirit of the game.

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retsibsi 54 minutes ago
I think that's too strong. The underarm ball was a case of playing within the rules, but against most people's notion of fair play. The hand of god would fit most people's definition of actual cheating.
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CamouflagedKiwi 2 hours ago
This was pretty bad. Will never be forgotten in NZ.

Has probably been forgotten by Australia and everywhere else though.

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wolfi1 2 hours ago
reminds me of the episode in HIMYM with the Minnesota sports bar
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Forgeties79 56 minutes ago
Dammit!
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wolfi1 2 hours ago
don't know anything about cricket, know only about the beginnings of the writings by learned scholar Douglas Adams
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vonzepp 48 minutes ago
The football (soccer) equivalent is someone kicking the ball out of play so that the game is stopped to allow medical attention to come on, and once the medical attention is over, the opposition taking the throw in doesn't throw the ball back to the other team. Occasionally teams have not done this, and scored a goal, shocked by this the goalkeeper will stand aside to allow the opposition to score an equaliser
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retsibsi 2 hours ago
The Aussies were simply adhering to the TLC-Sirlin credo.
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helsinkiandrew 2 hours ago
To those not familiar with cricket and why this is so scandalous the English/Australian/New Zealand phrase “it’s not cricket” is used to describe an action or behaviour that is “unfair, dishonest, or goes against basic moral principles”
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