Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland
50 points by neilfrndes 3 hours ago | 41 comments

dvh 21 minutes ago
Solar cell is the only practically viable power source with no moving parts. Stop trying to attach it to moving things. Movements breaks things. Just put the panels by the rail, e.g. as vertical sound barriers in reasonable distance (to lower the pressure waves from train) from tracks. Or on a nearby field where it can be protected and inspected all at one place.
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Aurornis 8 minutes ago
Or don’t put the panels near a railway at all. We have so much land and even empty rooftops that would be easier and safer to use first. Running panels along a railway means the electricity has to be carried all the way back to some point, meaning either giant cables to handle the current or specialized equipment and high voltage transmission lines. None of that was addressed by this pilot program that was 100 meters long.

You can do a pilot test of solar panels anywhere and call it a success, but the real test is scaling it up in an economically viable way compared to alternatives. None of that was tested.

Putting panels in a line is the worst arrangement. Just put them on roof tops or fields and keep it to places where they don’t have to be armored and reinforced.

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SoftTalker 16 minutes ago
It does seem kind of silly to put the panels between the rails, more prone to damage there from stuff falling off the trains, derailments, etc. though I guess it's easy open space.

Before I read the article I was thinking the electricity from the panels would power the trains but doesn't sound like the output is enough.

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reader9274 23 minutes ago
This will never work, and it's ridiculous: https://youtu.be/7vItnxhWRqw
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syllablehq 3 minutes ago
And yet it did work, with positive results shown over a year, right? It seems that the reasons why this "could never work" like cracks, dust, and vibrations might have perfectly reasonable solutions. Solar panels have gotten so cheap that it might not be as important to install them in perfect conditions, and other factors like real estate, ease of maintenance, access to the grid come into play in interesting ways. I suppose long term results are yet to be seen, but it doesn't seem ridiculous to me.
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kuerbel 59 minutes ago
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3eb7988a1663 53 minutes ago
That video is good - seeing the train-car dropping the panels into place makes it clear that you have some immediate labor savings on the initial deployment. Not sure if the post-installation labor was significant or could be automated away.

Still not sold on the idea. For something with a 20+ year life span, the initial deployment effort seems kind of irrelevant and should be better located somewhere that does not require ongoing activity. Train ballast requires replacement every N years which is going to require ripping up all of those panels.

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Aurornis 17 minutes ago
> seeing the train-car dropping the panels into place makes it clear that you have some immediate labor savings on the initial deployment.

Dropping panels in place is not the hard part. Getting all of that electricity back to a connection point is one of the many problems created by this idea.

Putting panels in a multiple kilometer long end-to-end row is very inefficient compared to rectangular layouts that can be clustered around connection points.

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Aboutplants 2 hours ago
What are the economics of this? Cost to install vs other available options? Durability will certainly be an issue I’m sure. Genuinely curious and not because I think it’s a bad idea. I want solar on all underutilized areas, I just prefer low hanging fruit from a cost perspective at the current time.
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LaurensBER 2 hours ago
I imagine that the cost to install is fairly low since train tracks require regular monitoring and maintenance so it's fairly cheap to add the installation and maintenance on top of the existing schedule.

The manufacturer claims that durability should not be an issue. Time will tell.

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tryagainian 54 minutes ago
Placing a cover over the area between the tracks makes it much more difficult to inspect the ties (sleepers) and ballast.
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inglor_cz 5 minutes ago
Yes, worsened inspection is a non-trivial problem. Very high quality sleepers (I wouldn't expect any other kind in Switzerland) mitigate this, but copying such approach in other countries could spell trouble.
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datadrivenangel 2 hours ago
Seems likely that safe access for maintenance makes this unappealing economically. Likely easier to have wider rail right of way and then put a panel farm on the side.
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tryagainian 51 minutes ago
With the added benefit of being able to mount the tracks at an angle, and the added disadvantage of occupying area near the tracks that is occasionally used for maintenance equipment.

And getting approval to widen the right of way, where it’s even physically possible, and issues around flora suppression.

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tryagainian 57 minutes ago
[flagged]
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matwood 49 minutes ago
> Everywhere grid scale solar goes, expensive new transmission lines follow.

How is this different than any other power generation install?

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SoftTalker 39 minutes ago
Solar (and wind, I guess) is way more spread out? Other power generation happens at a point on a map by comparison.
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Certhas 22 minutes ago
So requires more transmission infrastructure. The difference is that we already have that built out over decades, and now we need a different network in a much shorter timescale.

No one should pretend that the energy transition is free. The final system we will arrive at can be ver

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Aurornis 21 minutes ago
Putting solar panels in familiar places is always popular as an idea, but rarely better than putting them on the usual roofs or as rectangular arrays on the ground.

> the railway was fitted with 48 specially-designed solar panels with a combined power of 18 kWp.

18 kW is less than what gets installed on a lot of houses. It took 100 meters to do this. The farther the panels get from the interconnect, the higher the losses along the line.

It’s easy to set up 18kW of panels in one spot. Covering an entire railway with panels would require a different transmission setup to get the power back to somewhere useful.

I really wish we could just forget all of these ideas to put solar panels in places that are highly trafficked and serving double duty. Just put them in unused space that isn’t used for anything else: Rooftops, empty fields, or over parking garages. I often get downvoted for saying this because a lot of people like these ideas of putting solar panels in space that they see, like sidewalks or roads or railways, but we have so much unused space that isn’t near foot traffic, road traffic, or railways that is so much cheaper and easier to use for solar. These projects usually turn into political grifts to get government funding because the ideas are not economically viable alternatives.

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ceejayoz 15 minutes ago
> It took 100 meters to do this.

Thankfully, Switzerland has lots of meters of railway.

> Covering an entire railway with panels would require a different transmission setup to get the power back to somewhere useful.

There's caternary on 99% of Swiss rail, every few dozen meters, that already transmits power.

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Aurornis 4 minutes ago
> Thankfully, Switzerland has lots of meters of railway.

The linear meters of railway are nothing compared to the square meters of rooftops. Putting panels in a long row is the maximally worst arrangement you can come up with.

> There's caternary on 99% of Swiss rail, every few dozen meters, that already transmits power.

I guarantee this wasn’t oversized to accommodate power transmission duties, too.

It’s also high voltage line. The solar setup would need additional and expensive high voltage equipment to interface with the line and to work within the design parameters of a line that was designed to deliver to the train, not carry extra power.

You could put the panels anywhere else and connect them normally to the grid like every other installation.

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mschuster91 10 minutes ago
> There's caternary on 99% of Swiss rail, every few dozen meters, that already transmits power.

Switzerland runs on 15 kV catenary voltage. Transformers suitable for that kind of voltage cost a lot of money.

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CrzyLngPwd 10 minutes ago
I'm in the south UK, live off grid, and have a bunch of solar panels, none of them are flat aside from the 640w of panels on my van, which generate almost nothing during the Winter.

Panels on the sides ot trains might be a better solution.

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ben_w 3 hours ago
Always nice when something that I suggest in a random comment only to get a dismissive reply, turns out to be an idea worth persuing all along.
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Cpoll 2 hours ago
> idea worth persuing

Remains to be seen, considering how much snake oil there is in the solar market (but to be fair, this makes more sense than solar roads). A news article summary of a press release isn't proof of much.

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therealpygon 2 hours ago
Being right about things you have no control over is a bit like being right about your favorite flavor of jelly.
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ben_w 49 minutes ago
Of course.

I have tried entrepreneurial stuff twice before, in my 20s, though without much success. Having ideas good enough to get investors interested is a sign that perhaps I should have another go at it.

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shermantanktop 56 minutes ago
Can you be wrong about your favorite flavor of jelly?
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baybal2 2 hours ago
[dead]
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bee_rider 58 minutes ago
It makes more sense than the road, because at least the train isn’t driving directly on the thing. I wonder if the power could be delivered directly to the train. Although the only savings really would be transmission costs, not sure how big of a deal that is…
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JumpCrisscross 34 minutes ago
> at least the train isn’t driving directly on the thing

It’s just kicking up dust and dripping lubricant onto it.

Maybe this makes sense. I’m deeply sceptical. Especially when you could just be putting vertical panels to the sides.

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hx8 16 minutes ago
It's solar, of course the unit economics are going to pencil out positive in the majority of climates and energy markets. The real question is "why should we put them here instead of somewhere else."

I wonder if the benefits are legal/jurisdiction/political. The total amount of track they could install this on is huge, and it doesn't seem like something that will be disagreeable on the local level. It could just be the easiest place to put it to deal with property law and zoning etc.

Another political benefit is that it means work for a very large number of jurisdictions, as there are suitable tracks just about everywhere.

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Epa095 20 minutes ago

  Initially, he planned to remove dust from the surface of the photovoltaic cells using a cylindrical brush mounted on the rear of a train. “However, we realised that each time a train passes, it creates an airflow that sweeps away all the dust,” he said.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/emissions-reduction/solar-energ...
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zdragnar 12 minutes ago
That seems pretty optimistic in the long run. Even a high power leaf blower won't get all the dust off of a dirty surface, especially if any sort of hydraulic oil, bearing grease or other viscous fluid mists onto the surface.
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happosai 5 minutes ago
At least trains no longer drop literal shit between rails...
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mrmanner 3 hours ago
Trains AND solar power. Awesome.
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ajsnigrutin 37 minutes ago
Solar sidewalks, solar roads, now solar rail?

WHY?! Dave from eevblog did the math and it's bad

Did we really fill up all the area on top of roofs, parkings lots, industrial areas, etc., and we're running out, and we have to put solar cells on railroads?

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Quitschquat 35 minutes ago
I think these kinds of ideas capture easily impressionable, elected representatives whose technical knowledge is non existent.
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prmoustache 11 minutes ago
> Did we really fill up all the area on top of roofs, parkings lots, industrial areas, etc., and we're running out, and we have to put solar cells on railroads?

I guess it is easier to control the deployment since they own the railroads.

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pepperoni_pizza 2 hours ago
Today we sail

On the Solar Rail

For there's much we just don't know

So farewell with a kiss

Then it's fast for the mist

Till we're sleeping in the cold below

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Terr_ 15 minutes ago
Cold: the metal boxes going

Hard: the tracks on which we roam

Panels when the dark's not coming

Feel the weight of what we tow

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tryagainian 2 hours ago
Would you be better off just building an additional nuclear power plant.

This trial tied the panels to the grid, but they want to connect it to railway substations or directly in to the trains power system for the traction motors.

Making the power only available for trains.

And never at night, as is typical with solar panels.

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golemotron 2 hours ago
[flagged]
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