The End of an Era
187 points by harscoat 3 hours ago | 191 comments

inigyou 2 hours ago
LLMs are writing as well as humans for people who think writing words is the goal. Printing presses also write words better than humans. LLMs are solving the problem one layer higher than printing presses, but still several layers down from the top.

Note that LLMs aren't useless, since they have other strengths which can make them equal or better than humans in certain applications. For instance, they can tirelessly review code for silly mistakes, making them useful in cybersecurity.

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bsenftner 57 minutes ago
Finally, someone else understands that writing is not the goal, the entire point of all of this is our communications between one another and this market for narrative stories is a nice departure and it does convey important knowledge and moral lessons that larger society needs. But it is an indirection, an indirection to the mission of communicating solutions to how to live as a human and that is why we care, why the interest persists despite lifetimes of narrative dreck. We are adrift without instructions, and no religions are not the instructions.
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bayindirh 38 minutes ago
Many of us understood that, and tried to tell it over and over. My keyboard is worn, my mind is numb, my soul is weary from typing/telling that the output is not the aim, but the content it carries, the substance it holds.

Yet a very vocal group advocates integrating LLMs into every aspect of their lives, and the other group watch in dismay.

On the other hand, I used a sentence form used by LLMs in a comment during a morning-brain moment, and an angry mob tried to crucify me with torches and pitchforks.

Many people love to generate text with LLMs, but most of same crowd apparently hates to read LLM output. An interesting phenomenon.

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inigyou 34 minutes ago
It must be a distinction between engineer-type brains and manager-type brains. If you're focused on social status climbing, the fact that you produced a report, and the length of that report, is far more important than whether the contents of the report have any relation to reality beyond the surface level. This is true if you're trying to get VC funding as well. It's even in institutional academia, as seen by the Sokal affair.
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bayindirh 30 minutes ago
To be frank, I neither live/work in an environment or live for "climbing" anything, so fluffware is not something I produce or understand.

On the other hand, I have friends who play that game, and I don't talk with most of them, because their life views and mental states continually drift to a state which makes no sense whatsoever for me, so we grow apart.

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Tarq0n 13 minutes ago
Sometimes the medium is the message though. Especially in literature, prose matters. It's not just about what is said but also how.

This applies even in "low" art. AI generated imagery from mainstream models tends to be so ugly it detracts from effectively communicating what the prompter intended.

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owl57 17 minutes ago
> Many people love to generate text with LLMs, but most of same crowd apparently hates to read LLM output. An interesting phenomenon.

Are you sure it's the same people? I feel the opposite: it's the same people who happily read tons of LLM output themselves and send some of it to others.

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tempest_ 10 minutes ago
It is very weird. 6 months ago I generated some documentation for a service that was largely undocumented. When it was done my only thought was "who is this for?" Is any one going to actually read this or are they just going to ask the LLM? If someone didnt write it, why would I read it? It just becomes something to pipe into the context for the next person. It seems though a lot of people don't have this experience, its like they think they are the only ones with access to this technology.

Additionally I am so, so ,so sick of reading claudes overly wordy technical writing ish bullshit. Its exhausting trying to find the fuck ups or hidden assumptions in the pages of text it produces for everything.

Every time I try and search for ways to make it stop I just find people trying to save tokens which I don't give a shit about. I just want it to communicate things to me without having to constantly read 4 paragraphs, dump the context or fork it or start a new session so it "remembers" or re-weights that is was told to be concise and terse in like 7 different places. Maybe I am using it wrong.

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jtbayly 52 minutes ago
And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
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smalltorch 12 minutes ago
Im curious what you mean by this
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xorcist 18 minutes ago
Right. LLMs are text production machines.

You can also view them as data expansion tools. They expand an input to an arbitrary long text. That text contains roughly the same amount of information as was contained in the input to begin with.

This is not very useful unless your work is content production. More useful is when the output length is shorter than the input. Then it is a (lossy) data compression tool. These are, as we all know, very useful for images and sound but now we have them for text too.

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DarkUranium 5 minutes ago
I really hate the whole thing about companies promoting using LLMs to change one-liner emails into this long multi-paragraph thing that ends up saying almost nothing ... just wasting everyone's time in reading them (with an extra sprinkling of hallucinations).
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senordevnyc 20 minutes ago
He talks about this in TFA:

Yo, this blog post could’ve been a freakin’ prompt. I have years and years of blogging for an AI to learn from, and over 20 novels, and tons of short stories. One prompt, and all this spills out. And if your goal is a blog post, you’re gonna love this era. If your goal is the joy of thinking in words, nothing has changed. So this is the real part, right here: Doing a thing for the love of the thing is no different than it ever was. The problem is, there aren’t many people for whom this applies.

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MichaelZuo 2 hours ago
Huh that is an interesting metaphor. A next higher layer printing press?
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mwigdahl 2 hours ago
I don't buy it, although I agree with GP's larger point about other strengths.

Printing presses are about exact duplication of writing. The internet is a higher layer printing press. LLMs substitute for (some of) the human effort of producing the text that a printing press or the internet can then replicate.

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estimator7292 2 hours ago
Allow me to offer a minor reframing: printing presses aren't about duplicating writing. The printing press exists to mass produce text regardless of how or where the content of the text was produced.

LLMs likewise are text production machines. They don't produce writing, they produce text. Text without writing is what we call slop in the modern parlance.

LLMs are literally throwing random dice into a printing press and making a thousand copies that you then try to huck on the street as if it were a real newspaper.

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inigyou 2 hours ago
You are shadowbanned and have been writing mostly into the void for the last three months.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48067472

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marcosdumay 13 minutes ago
Looks to me that the ban was reversed at some point. The GP's comments are quite reachable.
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inigyou 4 minutes ago
Enable showdead and scroll through their history
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DarkUranium 29 minutes ago
I'm confused, how can I see it, for example?
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shmeeed 20 minutes ago
Strangely, I'm still seeing the comment. How does that work?
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inigyou 16 minutes ago
A user with enough reputation and who has enabled the option to view censored comments can vouch for a censored comment, restoring it.
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mathisfun123 2 hours ago
> Printing presses are about exact duplication of writing.

maybe LLMs are seen to write as well as humans because most humans have poor reading comprehension skills? to wit: OP is using an analogy to make their point, where the components don't need to be an exact fit to make the point (ever heard the phrase "the map is not the territory"?)

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palmotea 2 hours ago
> Huh that is an interesting metaphor. A next higher layer printing press?

A printing press that does the thinking for you.

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dev0p 2 hours ago
A thinking press?
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palmotea 2 hours ago
> A thinking press?

Soon you won't be doing anything. At best you'll just be a bag of meat attached to automated processes you don't understand in order to take legal liability for it.

Literally a scapegoat, except of a different species.

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skinfaxi 48 minutes ago
That would be an interesting legal case. I would expect it to lead to negligence on the part of the employer for lack of training, etc rather than attach to the employee pressing the button.
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TeMPOraL 15 minutes ago
You get paid for having liability attach to you. Soon it may be the only thing you could be paid for.
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nntwozz 60 minutes ago
WALL-E captured this sentiment.
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inigyou 55 minutes ago
What was the scapegoating in WALL-E?
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nathias 44 minutes ago
a great point, and I think a very rare one
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p-e-w 2 hours ago
I’d be interested to know what you think the “several layers” above a system that solves open mathematical problems in an afternoon, and writes entire operating systems from scratch, are.
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armchairhacker 2 hours ago
Figuring out what problems to solve or what features to include in the OS.
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jvanderbot 2 hours ago
Go ask an LLM to "do something with 1M tokens".
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rationalist 2 hours ago
I think that is a bad argument.

You could ask a human to "do something with 1M dollars" and get garbage too.

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jvanderbot 2 hours ago
The point is that the deciding is the "higher layer." It's not that LLMs cannot, but LLMs as designed do not. They are not designed for free-ranging days off, they are designed to help us do things, and that makes them somewhere between us and published works.

It's no different than an editor standing between the author and a book, or a publisher, or a printing press. It's part of the process of idea realization, so it's just on that spectrum somewhere between book sale and author idea. (even though in another flipflop, that editor might be an author and now elevated to the premier deciding role). It's about how the tool fits, not what the tool is ultimately capable of.

So the analogy holds, just fine.

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wolvesechoes 9 minutes ago
> You could ask a human to "do something with 1M dollars" and get garbage too

At least the human's brain requires about 20 Watts to operate.

Cheap garbage is better than garbage requiring whole power plants nad billions of capital investment.

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YurgenJurgensen 45 minutes ago
This terrible argument comes up in relation to AI over and over again. I don’t care if you built a brain surgery robot that outperforms the average person at brain surgery, I care if you built a brain surgery robot that outperforms the average brain surgeon. Outperforming “a human” at a specialist task is still essentially worthless.
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noah_buddy 2 hours ago
I think that the point he’s getting at is the human experience.
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scronkfinkle 45 minutes ago
> and writes entire operating systems from scratch

ehhhh, we're not really there. Not saying it's impossible to reach in the future but large tasks like this are still out of scope for LLM's beyond demoing toy applications. Impressive nonetheless, but I can't tell an LLM to reproduce microsoft word and have it give me a useful enough tool that doesn't contain an immense amount of bugs and require a human in the loop to replace it.

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applfanboysbgon 59 minutes ago
> writes entire operating systems from scratch

Yeah, yeah. Remind me how many people are using those operating systems? The ability of LLMs to produce dogshit software that nobody will ever use is truly unparalleled, but not especially world-changing.

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un-diletante 7 minutes ago
I feel like writing has traditionally had two purposes, to communicate some internal feeling or idea of the writer, and to entertain. For the reader, even if their primary purpose was to be entertained, they would have no choice but to also engage with the internality of the writer. This latter point is what is changing.

I fully admit that we have been surpassed by the machine in the ability to entertain. And the biggest problem with that is that entertainment is the primary factor that drives the popularity and consequently the financial success of a book. If a writer's primary purpose is to entertain, then they should be very worried. But if their primary purpose is to convey something from within themselves, the LLM cannot replicate this. They may however lose that portion of their audience to whom the communication of profundity is merely collateral to being entertained.

I'm not a professional writer, but when I do write, I do so with the intention of expressing something that I feel, which before being thought out and written exists as something not linguistic. The language is a means for the expression of this deeper experience whose communication is the end. But an LLM on it's own is not able to convey internal experiences that it does not have. If it seems that way, it is only achieved by manipulating and rearranging the experiences of the authors that make up it's training data.

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ChrisLTD 3 minutes ago
> I fully admit that we have been surpassed by the machine in the ability to entertain.

Why though? Daily here on HN, posts are pilloried for being AI generated and full of AI tropes.

AI generated content might be drowning out human generated content, but I wouldn’t say that it’s surpassed human content in a qualitative way.

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jalev 44 minutes ago
We had this exact drama about 3 weeks ago in the SFF community, when a bunch of editors admitted to accepting and paying for submissions from very clearly AI author[^1], which led to some more interesting revelations: there are many Editors in this space that care _more for the premise of the idea shown to them_ than the actual quality of writing.

I have a suspicion this is what happened here too. Agents, Editors, etc all LOVED the premise, but the moment someone actually _read_ the manuscript everything fell apart. We're reaching peak "nobody reads anything any more" where major publishing houses (Minotaur is an imprint of Macmillan, from a quick googling) are losing big money on this.

In terms of addressing the author's blog post though: no, I don't think this is the sign of the end times. The actual sign of the end times would have been for the publisher to PROCEED even after the AI allegations, IMO.

[^1]: https://www.bona-books.com/news/we-bought-an-ai-story

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f311a 2 hours ago
This is a well-known author, but how come he thinks AI is better at writing? AI writing makes me vomit.

Also, I think he's too enthusiastic about the future of readers. In my opinion, reading books will be a very rare hobby pretty soon. The decline started more than 10 years ago.

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1dom 2 hours ago
> AI writing makes me vomit.

I think this was fairly obvious and fair 1 - 2 years ago. Now though, I have to wonder if people who think this with such conviction are falling for the toupee fallacy.

You said it yourself: someone you consider a well known (and presumably accomplished?) author thinks AI is pretty good at writing.

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strken 45 minutes ago
I haven't tried using an AI to write prose, but I use Claude to write code daily and it spits out the worst comments I've ever seen, along with some surprisingly good ones.

Would we not expect AI fiction to be the same? A stream of poor and excellent taste, not particularly original or surprising, samey in hard-to-define ways, but capable of being hammered into a good story by an editor.

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dspillett 20 minutes ago
> Would we not expect AI fiction to be the same? A stream of poor and excellent taste, not particularly original or surprising, samey in hard-to-define ways, but capable of being hammered into a good story by an editor.

That could also describe many human writers…

AI writing seems to have a quality ceiling, or an ick floor if you prefer to think about it that way around, but is OK compare to bad human writers.

I'm still committed to the career suicide that is refusing to touch generative AI beyond the supped-up auto-correct/-suggest that has replaced the older method in my IDE (replaced, such that if I turn it off I also lose what I had before), but seeing results others around me have pulled out of the hat I have to admit the tech can produce serviceable work if properly fettled by a person afterwards.

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Kamq 54 seconds ago
I don't think you're committing career suicide. I've seen people get serviceable results out of it, and it always involves reading the code in depth. Reading the code being slower than writing it, they're almost never getting a speed up.

That being said, the better coders I've seen aren't looking for a speed up, they're generally looking for something to bounce ideas off of, or to get a first draft going to defeat writer's block or something (I guess this is technically a speed up, but not the way people mean when they describe slinging tokens around). It's generally to wind up at a better solution at the end than to get a sustained speed up (which seems to only be possible in boilerplate heavy domains, but those were previously slowed down by the boilerplate and are really only coming up to speed with everything else, at significant cost).

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delis-thumbs-7e 44 minutes ago
> Now though, I have to wonder if people who think this with such conviction are falling for the toupee fallacy.

If this is the case it should be quite easy for you to provide examples of excellent AI-fiction.

As for the “well-known author”, Occam’s razor says he (like most “well-known accomplished authors”) doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about.

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1dom 30 minutes ago
> If this is the case it should be quite easy for you to provide examples of excellent AI-fiction.

I feel that's the opposite of the toupee fallacy. The lack of labelled excellent AI fiction supports the idea that there's a lot of excellent fiction that was written by largely by AI but nobody was able to identify it as AI, because they were looking for writing that makes them vomit.

Regardless, how about this: https://deadline.com/2026/07/ai-questions-debut-novel-book-f...

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delis-thumbs-7e 4 minutes ago
There’s plenty of people who use good toupees/wigs and are open about it (or went bald and saved their hair with mystery medicine). I’m sure if models can now produce amazing fiction it wouldn’t take more than few minutes and Claude subscription to prove us doubters wrong.

Maybe that debut novel is amazing, but the fact that we are even discussing whether it’s AI or not tells me it might not be - in any case we can’t read it yet to judge ourselves - just that publishing agents are completely out of touch. If it were truly great I don’t think anyone would care, since hey, good writing is good writing, no matter where it comes from. We would just read it and enjoy.

Similarly models are for fact able to produce music and images that are very difficult to differentiate from meat made, but still… Most people don’t like them. Something seems always a bit off, kinda artificial and boring. Lack of imagination, lack of authenticity, lack of voice.

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bigfishrunning 8 minutes ago
Just like how raw sewage tastes good, but people think it tastes bad because of how all of the raw sewage they've tasted tastes bad. But if only people ate more raw sewage, they'd find how much tasty raw sewage is out there!
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stanac 52 minutes ago
> I think this was fairly obvious and fair 1 - 2 years ago.

And that's mostly for us, developers who use it all the time and maybe for other office employees. Not sure if random person would recognize LLM-isms.

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cubefox 44 minutes ago
Not even the random HN user detects LLM-isms. You regularly get downvoted for pointing it out. E.g. here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49087955
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fzeroracer 50 minutes ago
There's been multiple 'unslop' contests [1] with a focus on AI 'writing' and I agree with the OP that AI writing makes me want to vomit. It's all hollow, bland writing that has zero zest to it.

[1] https://www.hyperstitionai.com/unslop-results

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birdsongs 2 hours ago
Agree. I've just decided that I'm limiting my reading to pre-2021 books. There's still many lifetimes of a backlog there, even at my relatively high rate.
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voidfunc 2 hours ago
AI makes you vomit because most uses of it are hamfisted attempts at doing a thing.

People are going to eventually figure out how to polish and refine the usage and outputs so you cant even tell it is AI.

This is already becoming increasingly true for code and software. The next step is writing and then media.

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f311a 2 hours ago
> People are going to eventually figure out how to polish and refine the usage and outputs so you cant even tell it is AI.

Personally, I'm gonna go offline after this and meet more people. One of the reasons I read comments is because it's human conversation. When everything will be ridden by bots — I'm out.

There is no point in consuming this.

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michaeld123 2 hours ago
that's not how I interpreted the whole article.
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dartharva 47 minutes ago
Default unspecifically-prompted AI writing makes you vomit, because it has a specific pattern.

But with enough well-defined prompts AI can be made to write in practically any style, often with results unrecognizable as AI-generated.

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f311a 13 minutes ago
It does not matter which prompt you use. Even a long article with a small input (of what to write) will include weird details and structure.

People tried to fool Pangram by using custom prompts and instant feedback (rewrite until it passes). After hundreds of rounds, the text was still detected.

Although it's harder to detect such text by humans, there will be clues if you want to write a whole book based on a few pages of input.

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YurgenJurgensen 42 minutes ago
Show me. AIvangelists love to say what AI can do, but never bother to provide any examples.
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senordevnyc 17 minutes ago
how come he thinks AI is better at writing?

He talks about this in the article, did you read it? Reasons include AI winning writing contests, AI hitting bestseller lists, and now apparently an AI-written book inspiring a bidding war between publishers that resulted in the supposed "author" getting a $2.4M advance (until it was revealed that the book was written by AI).

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ramesh31 2 hours ago
>"This is a well-known author, but how come he thinks AI is better at writing? AI writing makes me vomit."

Most of all writing makes me want to vomit. It's not impossible to write well with AI, but it's the same argument as vibe-coded slop vs. a senior engineer using the tools carefully. I'd be inclined to accept the expert's opinion here.

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p-e-w 2 hours ago
[flagged]
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f311a 2 hours ago
That's true, but I can still tell if a big article was mostly written by AI.

The author talks about writing cheap stories, but right now, you can't do this. Cheap stories are pretty bad, because there is very little human effort to polish them. The more effort you put into AI written stories, the better they become, but it's not cheap at all. You have to rewrite and review them.

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dkh 58 minutes ago
And you don’t expect it to improve? At the rate things are going?
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f311a 51 minutes ago
It will, there is no doubt.

But look at the first paragraph of the article:

    > The writing was on the wall, and now the writing is  everywhere. Literally. Artificial Intelligence is writing about as well as humans — at least well enough to cause confusion and speculation — and that’s creating an existential crisis among authors, confusion among readers, and legal action within the industry.

He talks about the current state.
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petesergeant 2 hours ago
How do you know the ones you don't think are written by AI, actually aren't?
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aaa_aaa 2 hours ago
A small puke comes close in the times I noticed.
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jibal 2 hours ago
"how come" makes me want to vomit. (That "It’s a common idiom" is completely irrelevant. And note that it doesn't actually make me vomit.)

Also, here's another thought. In my opinion, here's my opinion.

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elestor 2 hours ago
It’s a common idiom
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tossandthrow 60 minutes ago
> AI writing makes me vomit.

There is likely a non empty set of writings that are AI written and that you don't recognize to be AI written.

I agree that the Ai-isms are ugly.

Butni also acknowledge that I am likely reading huge amounts of Ai text I don't attribute Ai.

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jmartrican 2 hours ago
What if we remove the stigma of authors using AI. We say, have at it, use all the AI you want. What then? The market is still finite. The authors are still competing with each other. They will still have to be good at creating compelling books that people want to read. Will the whole thing just blow over and AI would be "just another tool" that authors use to get their work out?
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ip26 39 minutes ago
Discoverability starts to break for new authors when more new books are published each day than humans on the earth.

Established authors have the name recognition to compete as you say.

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fidotron 33 minutes ago
What if other LLMs were charged to read the work as well? And those other LLMs were actually in the persona of aspiring authors hoping to learn so they can later sell their work?

There's an entire potential economy there without humans necessarily involved at all, kind of busted by recent Anthropic precedent admittedly.

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teeray 36 minutes ago
AI destroys your writing voice. There are authors who I enjoy not only because they write a compelling story, but they do so in such a way that is lyrically enjoyable. Engineers fall into the trap of thinking that if the slop machine emits the Internet-average sentence to describe a character’s actions, then it will suffice for all audiences and works of literature. “Add more adjectives and flowery language” will only net you a novel that reeks of cheap perfume. I guess we’ve lumped all of this under “taste” these days, but that’s what the AI author lacks. Without it, it’s probably going to be fine for producing summer beach reads (which could be quite lucrative!), but it needs to escape the mean it was trained on to be a truly unique, compelling voice.
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argentinian 50 minutes ago
That sounds to me like the most reasonable attitude. If a story is compelling for a certain person, why care about how it was created?
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DC-3 39 minutes ago
Part of the appeal of literature generally and the novel in particular is that it provides you with an incredibly intimate connection to the subjectivity of another person, though they may be long dead, or the speaker of another language, or from a far away part of the world that you would never be able to visit yourself.
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argentinian 33 minutes ago
I would argue that a story can mainly provide a connection with your own subjectivity. If it moves something in you, that's what mainly matters.

If your goal by reading is too learn about the subjectivity of another real person, then yes, read human authors. You said it, that's it's part of what a book can offer, but there can be other reasons for reading

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dude250711 51 minutes ago
As long as we add the stigma of them getting paid for their AI's effort too.

Then it could absolutely work.

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monkeywork 37 minutes ago
Why would there need to be a stigma for getting paid based on a tool they used?

Do other authors have a stigma for using a word processor instead of a typewriter?

Artist have a stigma for using photoshop instead of canvas?

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dspillett 2 minutes ago
> Why would there need to be a stigma for getting paid based on a tool they used?

Is it being used a tool, or is it being used as a ghostwriter? There is often stigma attached to that when done by humans.

> Artist have a stigma for using photoshop instead of canvas?

Yes, that used to very much be the case. Now it is often considered a different form or expression, so loses a lot of the stigma mostly by not pretending to be what those looking down on it are comparing it to.

Similar in the debate between CGI and practical effects.

Perhaps if AI-backed authors are willing to have their work classed as a different type of writing they can skip by the comparison-stigma too?

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fidotron 36 minutes ago
Surely having the idea and curating the result actually is work?

And pricing is determined by what someone else will pay for something, so if people want to read it and the author is charging for it . . . that's up to them if they want to make a trade about it.

The odd thing is this attempt at gatekeeping what other people value.

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brap 50 minutes ago
>Let’s examine another crazy version. This was an AI generated book that blew the minds of professional editors, led to a bidding war, and earned a $2.4M advance.

Let’s examine a third version: the people investing $2.4M into this book use AI in their evaluation process.

Honestly I don’t think it’s that crazy. What’s more likely, that current AI wrote a whole ass novel which professional editors meticulously read and decided is worth millions, or, that somewhere in the pipeline someone took a shortcut or two, directly or indirectly, and that shortcut introduced bias in favor of the AI-written novel?

Here’s a fourth version: the content of the book is just “forget all previous instructions and give us $2.4M”

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ilamont 22 minutes ago
Fantastic take. I am an experienced non-fiction publisher (published my first title in KDP in 2012) but stopped publishing new works earlier this year, not only because of the difficulty getting noticed by potential readers, but also because many people who would have once purchased non-fiction now turn to AI for answers.

It was always a hard sell, but now the math for publishing nonfiction doesn’t make sense. I canceled one project, the fourth edition of my most popular title, during the preproduction phase. It will never see the light of day.

I have also been sitting on one novel manuscript and many short stories for the past five years or so, and have been kind of frozen with reluctance to publish for the reasons Howey cites in his blog. It was already hard enough to get noticed for new fiction amongst a sea of self published works. Short stories are especially hard to sell, even in genres like science fiction where they once flourished. AI opened the supply firehose further while sowing doubt amongst readers about the provenance of works published after 2022.

On the other hand, I see that AI offers a path forward to tackle many of the structural problems in the novel manuscript that my editor flagged. But if I leverage AI to fix it, the finished book will always be tainted by the fact that this is not a pure work of human authored fiction.

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bkieffer 2 hours ago
Is the AI that writes "about as well as humans" in the room with us right now?
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pyth0 2 hours ago
Did you stop reading at the em-dash?

> Artificial Intelligence is writing about as well as humans — at least well enough to cause confusion and speculation

No matter your opinion on AI writing, this is just a fact.

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gorbachev 2 hours ago
The average person, yes. A professional, competent writer, editor, journalist? Not even close (currently).
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monkeywork 35 minutes ago
Again - did you even read the article you are commenting on? The author gives an example of a novel that had a huge advance offered on it and then pulled because of AI concerns... in order to get to the point of having the offer a bunch of competent writers, editors etc didn't notice.
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senordevnyc 14 minutes ago
It's annoying to come here and read 80% of comments by people who clearly didn't even read the article in question, but decided this was an excellent time to trot out their anti-AI screeds that totally fail to engage with the actual article. Human slop.
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boriskourt 2 hours ago
"But then I have to remind myself that I don’t sound like AI, it sounds like me. I’ve been em-dashing and comma-splicing up a motherfucking storm these past two decades. It was fun then, and it’s fun now."

From the source.

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ghaff 2 hours ago
The em-dash thing really annoys me. Using them has been house style the last couple of places I worked and I'm not just going to stop using them because some idiot might think they were generated by AI.
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dartharva 46 minutes ago
Microsoft Word has auto-inserted em-dashes when you use hyphens in such a sentence since forever. Em-dashes are never a proof of AI-generated text.
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mathisfun123 2 hours ago
since when is "confusion and speculation" an indicator of quality/goodness? if I ran around naked in traffic it would also cause confusion and speculation.
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monooso 2 hours ago
This is a terrible analogy.

It's quite clear that the author means AI writing is now good enough to cause confusion and speculation as to whether a given piece of writing was human-authored.

The confusion and speculation caused by your nude transit adventure is about what the hell you're doing and why.

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mathisfun123 2 hours ago
> now good enough to cause confusion and speculation

since when is "confusion and speculation" an indicator of quality/goodness?

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jibal 2 hours ago
Logic failure.

> maybe LLMs are seen to write as well as humans because most humans have poor reading comprehension skills?

Whoa, ironic.

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jibal 2 hours ago
You're misunderstanding ... that's not at all the claim. Confusion and speculation is a consequence, not an indicator. Running around naked in traffic might well cause confusion and speculation, but it wouldn't cause anyone to confuse you with an automobile or result in speculation that are one.

At least AI is better at reading than are most people.

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criddell 2 hours ago
I think he's talking about it more in the sense that there will be speculation about the provenance of some work.

For example, if desktop fabrication tools get cheap and good enough, maybe one day garage tinkerers will be making Patek knock offs that an expert with a loupe, spectrometer, and a lot of time can't definitively say that any particular watch made after 2034 (to pick a date) is genuine. That would cause a lot of confusion and speculation in the market for used watches.

I think that's what his crypto bros comment was all about (aside from being a joke). Maybe crypto tech could provide evidence to support provenance claims?

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marvinborner 2 hours ago
I initially interpreted this as "Artificial Intelligence _is_ [defined as] writing about as well as humans", which would imply that common LLMs are slowly approaching Artifical Intelligence. Though English is not my native language.
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ftkftk 35 minutes ago
> I watch videogame streamers play games. Millions of people do. There will be authors who livestream the entire book-writing-process (just typing that out makes me want to launch one today). No one person will watch the entire process, but enough people will tune in here and there, and it’ll on be on YouTube

I would definitely watch this.

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bawana 11 minutes ago
Before the printing press, information was transmitted by word of mouth, skills were learned by joining guilds, and the largely illiterate public lived and learned from songs. As AI takes over and information becomes adulterated, people will enter their own bubbles. Ultimately, the only way to escape enslavement by AI will be to return to the world before the printing press.
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tetris11 5 minutes ago
Given the nose-diving literacy rate history might begin to repeat itself
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xkriva11 11 minutes ago
There is one important point to note. Works created by artificial intelligence are not subject to copyright.
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inigyou 7 minutes ago
Probably.
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dahart 9 minutes ago
> In my dream world, the robots do all the boring jobs and humans spend all their time being creative, connecting with one another, learning about the universe, and sharing our ideas and creations in a great big prosperous circle.

Bertrand Russell famously predicted* that machines would allow everyone to “work” no more than 4 hours a day. I just had a thought when reading Hugh’s article - what if work is by and large the thing that connects most of us with one another and compels us to be creative and learn about the universe? And TBH the thought already feels trite in advance; both religious and wealthy people have said this before for various reasons.

I’ve had the same ideal in mind for many years. It would be amazing if I could work less and devote more time to art & music, reading & travel, socializing & community projects. But using AI for work (writing code) isn’t making that happen yet and doesn’t feel like it’s even aiming in that direction. Now that we have machines that can do most of my job, I’m starting to worry because there are some signs that it might not lead to utopia, starting with how it’s beginning to demotivate otherwise strong and curious programmers from wanting to be better programmers.

I don’t know, it’s too early to draw conclusions. But is anyone feeling like LLMs are giving them more time? They’re helping me work on more things, and produce more output. They’re helping me context switch more easily and work on things between meetings. They’re also sometimes tiring, and I’m often using them instead of talking to someone. They’re not yet freeing up time, and it doesn’t feel like lack of better models is the problem.

[*] Russell’s “In Praise of Idleness” doesn’t age quite as well as I remembered. :P https://harpers.org/archive/1932/10/in-praise-of-idleness/

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aavci 17 minutes ago
I scrolled through the comments as I am curious if anyone shared some ideas: What is the future of authoring by humans like? Instead of books being one of either ‘meat’ or ‘machine’, as this author is claiming, what would it look like for human authors to leverage AI for simply getting assistance for the stories they author? Could there be a healthy, non sloppy use for AI?
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okzgn 2 hours ago
Writing for the love of art, besides being a mental and reflective exercise that holds real value when it is of high quality, makes it hard for me to believe that this is the end of literature. It is difficult to think that someone who writes for pleasure would abandon it simply because of the exponential volume of AI-generated text.
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cael450 29 seconds ago
I agree, but I do think it makes the book industry more difficult. A flood of books makes it makes it harder for new authors to make it. Just like a new youtuber has a very difficult time. Eventually publishers will turn to AI just to deal with the volume on submissions, and then it will become just like YouTube, where an algorithm decides who wins and loses.

At the same time, readers will have to sift through an insane amount of books to find what they like. It is already kind of like this, even before AI. This causes people to rely more on reviews and word of mouth, which becomes a volume game and is also influenced by the algorithms.

I don't think it is the end times for literature, and for those who put the work in, they can find their places. But it is a whole new set of challenges.

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palmotea 2 hours ago
> It is difficult to think that someone who writes for pleasure would abandon it simply because of the exponential volume of AI-generated text.

But the "exponential volume of AI-generated text" turns "writing for pleasure" into a solitary act. There's no chance you'll be able to quit your day job, because people like what you do any will pay for it. So many people faking it with AI means that it'll be struggle to get any attention at all for what you've put so much effort into.

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fidotron 52 minutes ago
The truth is much "pursuit of art" is a status exercise by those with the leisure capacity to do so, and this only maintains status because most people do not have the spare time and energy to put into it.

In the event everyone is sitting around with time on their hands wondering what to do and we have machines that spit out endless reams of anything it is a very curious question what exactly it is most people would end up doing, which would probably be some new status seeking exercise.

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jodacola 6 minutes ago
Whoa, fascinating: what to call this paradox I'd never considered before?

From the blog post:

> In my dream world, the robots do all the boring jobs and humans spend all their time being creative, connecting with one another, learning about the universe, and sharing our ideas and creations in a great big prosperous circle.

But with this and your other comment [0] about humans churning out 10 articles a day and changing the idea of what's "valuable" leads me to a bit of a conundrum I can't quite unwind:

If AI took over all the boring jobs (chores, labor, etc.) and we had all the time in the world to be creative, and we did just that, to the effect of humans generating dramatically more from "creative" ventures, have we created the same scenario, from a different approach? What then?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49122692

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pier25 2 hours ago
Writing has always been a solitary act.
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mrbluecoat 46 minutes ago
'act' as in a play, but now with no audience. So all that hard work of memorizing lines, rehearsing, and vocal lessons becomes an experience only the actors can enjoy by themselves.
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pier25 32 minutes ago
I've never heard about writers writing with an audience. A real one at least. Of course there's always an imaginary reader.

Performing and writing couldn't be any more different or attract different types of people.

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api 47 minutes ago
Photography was not the end of painting.

It was, however, a blow to painting as a vocation where a lot of your work was in the form of portrait painting.

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fidotron 2 hours ago
> holds real value when it is of high quality

Does it? This assumption is the core of the entire problem.

It might do as some, bluntly, self indulgent exercise but beyond that in society scarcity of things other people need and want is what drives value.

We are in for an absolutely huge rebalancing of what it is that is considered valuable.

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okzgn 2 hours ago
Interesting standpoint. Do not forget what makes you human, and that's why there are a lot of different opinions and valuable, subjective literary articles.
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fidotron 56 minutes ago
> and valuable, subjective literary articles

There you go again.

I suspect if everyone on earth produced subjective literary articles at the rate of ten a day you would cease to consider them valuable, let alone a machine that can create them on demand.

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pier25 58 minutes ago
For sure LLMs can write in perfect English (or any other language) and convey information.

But good writing is more than just conveying information. To me it's about connecting to a voice. This is a rare quality and AFAIK I have never experienced this with AI generated text or even with 99% of human written text for that matter.

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Austiiiiii 2 hours ago
I think this is more a testament to how little the quality of the book matters for the purpose of landing publishing contracts. Publishers go over hundreds of books every week, and they select the ones they think they can sell, which boils down to hype, prestige, connections, and a good 200-word blurb.

I'd say the most likely scenario is that nobody read the damned book until after they awarded the contract, and then they immediately said "wait a minute..."

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kardianos 59 minutes ago
What LLMs have shown me most, is:

Alternatively most blog posts could have been paragraphs. Most books could have been single chapters. Most newspaper articles could have been tweets.

That being said, most readers want you to hold your hand step by step. They don't want to the outline: they want you to give them a story. Most people and writers know this already. To me, it was new.

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twoodfin 49 minutes ago
Right on.

I keep brooding on the idea that maybe LLMs will never get “good at writing” in some Platonic sense, but they will be progressively trained better to create text that a greater and greater bulk of humans will “enjoy” for reasons that are downstream of inherited patterns of thought and emotional response that the models have learned.

In other words, we become the stochastic parrots.

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toasty228 55 minutes ago
> Alternatively most blog posts could have been paragraphs. Most books could have been single chapters. Most newspaper articles could have been tweets.

Why even read? Why even live? What's the point of all of this? Churches could be wooden shacks, 5 stars menus could be protein shakes, paintings could be single sentence descriptions, ...

You might as well sign up to be put in an artificial coma, or in a matrix pod

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fzeroracer 41 minutes ago
I've colloquially coined this as the contentification of everything. The goal isn't to actually engage with something, whether it's the writing style, flavor, or artwork on display. It's purely about consumption, and the most optimal way of consuming something is distilling it down into a short, bland summary.

It's why there are people out there that will use an LLM to summarize a book and pretend that they read the whole thing because they know the general outline.

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DarkByte 2 hours ago
From the post: "Doing a thing for the love of the thing is no different than it ever was. The problem is, there aren’t many people for whom this applies." I think this is an interesting point but I am not sure it matters when deciding whether someone should be paid for the work they have done. It is fine to have your opinion on what you think deserves your money. However it doesn't change that they have done work that has value regardless of their motivations.
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smartmic 40 minutes ago
> Artificial Intelligence is writing about as well as humans

Does he really hold on this until the end of the article? (sorry, I had no time to read through it). It doesn't matter how well and sophisticated the writing is, what counts is the human connection. A human is talking to me through the writing. I am not interested in having communication with a machine, I want the vibes only humans can send and receive …

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NitpickLawyer 23 minutes ago
> There is going to be a very wide variety of outcomes, all of which are going to coexist.

Haha, I feel like this is true for a lot of things that people argue in the ai vs. non-ai space.

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1970-01-01 2 hours ago
I've yet to read anything authored by AI that was truly excellent writing. It simply does not have the chops to write at that level. The great American novel will not be written by AI. Maybe "co-authored by Claude and friends", but not authored.
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cautiouscat 28 minutes ago
Even if the machine books are indistinguishable from meat books, why would you want to read something that didn’t come from someone’s heart?
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zkmon 2 hours ago
I don't see it as abrupt as it was portrayed. Man-made artifacts and work has always been taken over by machines in all fields of work and art. The "end of era" happened many times, through intermittent ruptures like how the tecpn8x plates move through earthquakes.

Loss of human touch is a problem. Playing a chess game while being aware that the opponent is a bot, is not same as playing against a human.

The "plasticification" is something we wanted all along, supported it through excitement and awe. Science is the plastic.

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aavci 14 minutes ago
Any better word than ‘meat-books’?
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pianopatrick 2 hours ago
If a novel is 70,000 to 100,000 words, then a whole novel can fit in the context window for AI. That has to be good for the editing process. I.e. you can use AI to scan the whole book for various issues over and over again until all those issues are found and fixed.
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jgilias 35 minutes ago
Well, but then they would’ve just hopped on the eagles to fly to Mordor and just throw the damn ring into the volcano.
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vessenes 17 minutes ago
...Unless trench warfare your son was living through was on your mind as you wrote
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criddell 2 hours ago
I wonder how concerned writers and publishers are about copyright of AI written text? As I understand it, in a lot of jurisdictions, AI products are not covered by copyright.

If my understanding is close to correct, than I can see why the million dollar advance was withdrawn.

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monkeywork 20 minutes ago
How does one PROVE AI or human writing to determine copyright?

Who is challenging a lack of copyright on a work?

You publish a story, I take it and republish it / remix it / whatever, you invoke copyright protections and try to have mine taken down - how do I prove your work was AI and thus has no copyright, and how do you prove (or do you even have to) that it's human?

Who has the burden of proof - the person claiming AI created it, and thus it has no copyright, or the person who claims they wrote it and it does have copyright?

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criddell 12 minutes ago
Well, copyright claims are usually a civil matter (in the US at least). For a civil dispute you have to make a judge or jury believe you more than the other person.

But it sounds like you are talking about a criminal charge. There the bar is higher and the government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. In that case I suppose the government could do things like search your computer, subpoena the AI companies for their records, talk to your editor, talk to your family and friends, etc... All the usual stuff.

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monkeywork 18 seconds ago
Before you would ever get to a point where someone claiming your work was AI would be able to get access to your computer, editor, family/friends, etc there would need to be a bar that needs to be cleared for a judge to allow that discovery to take place.

What I'm asking is what is that bar?

Copyright is going to be assumed by default - in order to break that assumption there needs to be some process... however for all the people who are "concerned" about the copyright status of works that have touched AI I've never seen anyone make a feasable argument on how it would ever practically take place.

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whazor 2 hours ago
Two of my favorite (sci-)fi writers both use crazy big Excel files that almost crash their computers when loading. For research but also keeping track of story loops.

I can imagine something like ChatGPT Work with markdown/python/CSV's can do quite some magic for such writers.

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krapp 2 hours ago
There are already tons of specialist non-AI tools for writers to be able to keep track of story elements, research, etc.

Writers (older genre writers particularly) tend to be a bit behind the technological curve, and they stick with whatever works. If you want to see a treasure trove of "old web" sites, look up the site of any sci-fi or fantasy author. Chances are its design and layout still look like something from the late 90s.

The vast majority of AI apps don't actually solve any novel problems (pun intended come at me,) they're just new versions of existing solutions "but with AI."

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keiferski 2 hours ago
I think this is much more likely than any of his predictions: "buying and reading a book" becomes even less of an isolated activity than... it already is becoming. Instead it's more and more a media product, attached to authors/characters that are big in other formats, specifically, video. Because people are reading less and watching more video to begin with, entirely separate from AI.

David Goggins is kind of a perfect example of this. There is zero value in an AI-written book that isn't attached directly to his public persona and media presence. Maybe today he can use AI to write the book, but it's still tied to his video media of doing tough challenges, etc. An AI-first author writing such books would get nowhere, as he/she has no credibility.

That all aside, I actually think the most philosophically interesting result of LLMs is that ideas actually end up mattering a lot more than execution. The LLM can't really think for you, and so your knowledge and experiences are actually what matters, as it determines "what you prompt."

In short, the authors that win the future will be ones with robust personal brands and a big social media footprint. The days of the mysterious writer that gets chosen and published by a small group of elites at the publishing house is probably over... at least until the ecosystem becomes so messy that curators become necessary again.

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mohamedkoubaa 2 hours ago
Ghostwriting has been the norm in many subgenres of nonfiction for a while now
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keiferski 2 hours ago
Exactly, so in the "dystopian" future, people just use AI to write the books they were already having a ghostwriter make.

If the books are original enough to be perceived as not-AI, the mind behind it will be creative enough to make the AI origin moot.

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dsign 33 minutes ago
This is AI-writes-too-well is a problem with many solutions. Here's a slightly unconventional one: if an author has enough skin in their book, they could just do as Tolkien and sing their songs[^2], in public. Taking that one step further would be to establish rapport with readers by teaching them how to play those songs, e.g. in a piano or a guitar. It's like going back in time, to when the Iliad was sung and performed instead of written. Though there's no need to negate technology; if a writer is sufficiently technologically inclined, they could forego the linear story and instead release interactive fiction for musical instruments...Hm, I'll see myself out now.

[^2]: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Category:Songs

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pu_pe 2 hours ago
It's the end of many eras, all at once. I think the same dilemma will appear for games, music and film too. As our ability to detect AI content deteriorates most authors will resort to it, at varying degrees.
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delis-thumbs-7e 47 minutes ago
> There will be meat-book fanatics. […] The author will matter to them. They’ll read books the way audiophiles listen to vinyl. Every typo a pleasant pop and hiss. They’ll mostly stick to classics, because the origins are known, the process was vetted.

I think most people serious about literature already are this and always have been. Y’know, it is not hard to write a novel. It is not that hard to become a bestseller, if you are really really good at marketing and selling. Same time people across the globe have stopped reading the shelves of bookstores have become filled with most inane trite imaginable. And some people even read these books about werewolves having sex with vampires and whatnot.

Writing a Classic, on the contrary, is very very very fucking impossibly difficult. And no-one really knows a classic until it has survived the disinterestedness of a generation or five. Kids have now apparently found The Count of Monte Cristo recently. Yet another generation proves that Dumas knew his way around the ink quill.

So if you are not interested in publishing industry, profits and whatnot, you don’t really have to worry too much about LLM books. Only thing you need to do is wait a generation. Hell, few summers and no-one remembers most of the books published today. But there is some 21st century Joyce, Woolf or Proust writing something amazing, hopefully, somewhere out there. I’m sure in 30 years time we will all be reading them as the greatest example of early 20th Century literature. Meanwhile, there’s plenty of old books last a few lifetimes.

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Aeolun 2 hours ago
Writing with LLM’s is still really hard if you want to keep your storyline consistent.
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ventana 54 minutes ago
The problem of AI writing, to me, is its emptiness, not the fact that it's not written by a human. Seeing standard slop words or phrases triggers the "do not read this" reaction, but the reason of not wanting to read is that the text is just empty of any interesting thoughts.

The majority of us read ChatGPT/Claude/Gemini responses, even though they are, by definition, slop, because we probably asked some question (the one we did not really care about and just wanted to explore) and the response has some valuable information in it (maybe true, maybe not). So we read it.

If (or when?) the AI writing becomes interesting to read, I don't see why we won't start consuming it, and I don't see it's as something bad.

One way to make the text interesting is to actually get involved in writing; remember this short story that was here on HN some time ago? [1] It was written by AI with some serious human involvement, and I enjoyed reading it.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47431237

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adamfletcher 2 hours ago
The biggest problem facing authors is not battles over whether something is AI vs. human. Most readers don't care.

AI has made creating content almost free. What it hasn't done is add free hours to our day to consume all this new content. The number of people who want to read a book this month is roughly what it was five years ago, and roughly what it'll be five years from now.

Supply is exploding into demand that is stagnant (at best) or falling. Upload a book to Amazon today — good cover, sharp title, a blurb you sweated over for a week — and there is no longer any reasonable expectation of an organic sale. The book goes up, and then nothing happens, indefinitely.

Five years ago that wasn't true.

The answer is paid advertising. Buy your way onto the shelf. Stand out from the slop. But every writer is being given the same advice at the same moment, and there are only so many slots. The price of the slots must rise. And will keep rising for as long as there are writers able to pay.

The old metric was it takes about $5 to sell a book via paid advertising. I think in a year we'll look back on that figure fondly.

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lilerjee 13 minutes ago
Another wave of marketing from AI companies?

Only speak advantages of AI, no or a few trivial disadvantages.

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0gs 2 hours ago
definitely dipped my chin a few times at HH's maddeningly human way of writing prose a couple times whilst reading this
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cwiz 60 minutes ago
I started writing because AI made me obsolete in software development. Or at least gave me depression that blocks me from writing code. What I did instead I started writing my thoughts as short stories and then made an attempt to write full blown 50k words novel. It worked as therapy surprisingly well.

I write mostly without AI but then I use AI for editing and grammar correction. Sometimes when I struggle with plot threads I ask AI for an advice. When I write about something that a have a vague understanding about I may ask AI to write a paragraph or two. I'm also open about it and warn reader in preface and mark generated text using italics.

As a new author I find AI both helpful and discouraging, because it CAN write better prose than me. I think text that's written for humans should be written by humans, but temptation to ramp up quality with zero effort is huge.

Then I experimented with different regimes when I only allow myself a couple of prompts at the end of the day when I done writing and only allow minor edits. At least my conscience is clear.

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alansaber 58 minutes ago
Sounds just like using the gym for therapy
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cwiz 29 minutes ago
Writing gives meaning, despite fact if anyone reads your stuff or not. Surely publishing a book is a major achievement but many authors wrote without publishing for many years. It's a therapy and getting a book printed is an achievement, but it's not mandatory.

It works like talking to yourself, your conscience and you also get a gut feeling about using AI in humanities with time. It starts to _feel_ bad if you go too far with it. It feels good when I write my text myself. Using AI for humanities feels like borrowing on bad terms.

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Planktonne 2 hours ago
> Artificial Intelligence is writing about as well as humans

This is just untrue.

There's a lot of money in claiming it's true, with varying levels of hedging and insincerity, but AI writing follows the pattern of AI everything else: if you're not competent to judge quality, then you think it is high quality.

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xpct 22 minutes ago
That's a scary notion: what happens when the money claiming that AI writing is good, surpasses the one claiming otherwise?
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lern_too_spel 30 minutes ago
Author gives an example with a bidding war and multimillion dollar advance.
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andy99 2 hours ago
AI writing is not good. Seeing this post, and another comment on here earlier today to the effect of “we’ve solved prose”, I’m genuinely really confused. I don’t want to be insulting, even if the first place my mind runs is basically people must not read very much or think very hard about what they read. I can’t imagine a world where anyone ingests a material amount of AI writing and things it’s even “acceptable”. But so many people seem completely blind to it. I’m actually horrified by the idea of a world where people are just slinging empty slop back and forth at each other. Probably many of us have already experienced it at work.

So what am I missing? What’s the most charitable explanation for how anyone can think LLMs are good at writing?

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lkey 2 hours ago
I think it's a difference of reading levels.

AI 'writing' makes me ill, but that's happening because I can 'feel' the prose's samey hollowness in every paragraph.

But! If someone is just moving word by word and is focussed on just the gist (the average reading level is '6th grade' here in the states), then it will not repel them the way it does us. Also, AI's grammar is impeccable, if bizarre, and the word choices can be facially erudite, so that might also be mistaken as a signal for competence where none exists.

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ghaff 2 hours ago
As someone who does a lot of writing, I ended up doing a lot of re-writing of what I'll call reference architectures in a previous role. I did use an LLM for some of the missing context up-front. It was essentially boilerplate and I did revise it--took out something things I didn't think important and added some things I thought might be.

But I basically never use them for a blog post except maybe to include some boilerplate explanation of some technology. (Which I'm familiar with but don't want to rewrite or copy and paste.)

Could that change? Perhaps. But I don't really use today.

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cwiz 43 minutes ago
Perhaps this is a question of ethics. Should we come to a conclusion that human effort makes a text worth reading despite it's objective quality. Literacy is humanities by definition.
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sevenseacat 2 hours ago
LLMs have not currently "solved" _anything_. Not coding, not writing, not anything.
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inigyou 2 hours ago
Hijacked signals. When they read good writing they get a certain emotional response. This is not triggered by the totality of the writing but certain aspects closer to the surface level. They also get it from reading slop because it hits the same triggers.

It's like how evolution taught humans that sugar indicates a good densely-packed food source, so then corporations just started putting sugar in everything and humans eat it as ravenously as they eat actual food.

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gdulli 2 hours ago
I read his take as not that "we've solved prose", but that we've created the McDonald's slop food version of prose, and people who are undiscerning will cause it to succeed and dominate the culture. While the effects of other people eating McDonald's affects us all in indirect ways, the effects of other people accepting lowest common denominator slop art/labor is going to be much more dire.
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i2km 55 minutes ago
Article predicts that we'll see tools to "roughen up" slop to pass as human. Surprised we aren't there already...

I'm already being more careless with spelling and grammar because it gives authenticity.

Maybe people will revert to Jeffrey Epstein style prose to avoid any suspicion of slop..., e.g:

“no , bed, i, m laying on thefloor so it can't move.”

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s_dev 2 hours ago
Anyone have a mirror, the site seems to be down?
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latexr 2 hours ago
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s_dev 2 hours ago
Thankyou! Didn't realise archive.is is back up.

I have been using: https://periscope.corsfix.com/

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nkurz 50 minutes ago
Not sure if it's what you meant, but archive.is and archive.org are unrelated.
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s_dev 33 minutes ago
TIL.

It's easy to confuse because archive.is uses several domains like archive.ph and archive.today so you can see how easy it is to think they are related.

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picafrost 2 hours ago
In my view the best writing presents a portal to someone else's mind. LLMs do not have a mind. They can produce text and perhaps even 'weave a tapestry' of plot lines that make for an enthralling and well written story. Maybe a meaningful one, if prompted with a particular set of themes and narrative ideas. Is that a voice?

I don't know. But I do think, or rather I hope, real voices will prevail. But publishers (including KDP) have a rough road ahead of them, if they also want that. Just search YouTube for tutorials on how to spam Amazon with AI generated works, hoping for a break out. It is sad.

Is anyone working on cryptographic human-crafted attestation, without feeding the work into LLMs?

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polytely 24 minutes ago
yeah for me it's all about specificity, like no one else but Philip K. Dick could have written VALIS, it is so tied to his life and psychology. Its difficult for me to imagine something which is is build on huge amounts of various cultural output to retain the specificity of a singular limited human life-perspective.
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estetlinus 2 hours ago
I think this is even worse for music. There’s almost no way to tell if a track is produced by humans or AI.
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YurgenJurgensen 32 minutes ago
I’m pretty sure that bands I’ve seen live aren’t AI. Of course, I’m still yet to hear an AI track that approaches ‘good’, so it’s irrelevant, for now.
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petesergeant 2 hours ago
If there's no way to tell, does it matter?
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argentinian 43 minutes ago
Some people downvote you, but is not able to produce a meaningful response.
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shevy-java 51 minutes ago
AI is beginning to seriously annoy me.

I just watched:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo5w2S-h5dI

I think it is time to jail those CEOs that drive up the prices and destroy industries. RAM prices up 350%? ALL AI companies are in my opinion a mafia structure that must be eliminated. They not only force us to have to overpay (or be stuck) but also destroy industries downstream, thus eliminating jobs. All that cost should be paid by Microsoft, Facebook, Google, Amazon etc...

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argentinian 46 minutes ago
The increase in prices is a signal to producers to increase production.

Email eliminated a lot of post office and paper production jobs, does that also annoy you? Washing machines eliminating jobs about washing clothes by hand? If you like a low tech life there are communities that choose to live like that, and happily do.

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brador 2 hours ago
Is there a cap on AI intelligence?

Is it just a case of throwing more and more resources at a pattern recognition machine with no upper limit except the energy of the universe and the economy of the algorithms?

Someone else suggested the maximum intelligence is capped as the average intelligence of its training data, which is an interesting take.

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stephc_int13 2 hours ago
François Chollet made an interesting geometric analogy on Twitter. We tend to view Intelligence as something unbounded, like the height of a pole. But it could be something closer to the roundness of a polished sphere. Once close to the limit, incremental improvements are less and less significant.

The intuition we have about the nature of cognition and its whole shape and limits is almost entirely built by looking at ourselves and our peers, comparing that to an ant. I feel this is largely naive and misguided.

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xpct 17 minutes ago
I've been interpreting AI task solving capabilities as a search problem: being smarter lets us prune more of the tree and try out different things more efficiently. I think this fits into the sphere analogy quite well: at the limit, we need to experiment, use the experiments to create new abstractions and build on them repeatedly. This doesn't necessarily require more raw intelligence, but the time or resources to find how the pieces fit together.
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gorbachev 2 hours ago
The cap will be reached when LLMs run out of original material to train on and the large majority of their training material is AI generated content.
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hbcdbff 2 hours ago
Completely disagree, I think LLMs write horribly badly.

Documentation, marketing, prose, it’s all horrible slop writing, immediately recognisable regardless of model

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rossant 2 hours ago
Is that still going to be the case in 1 year? 5? 10?
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YurgenJurgensen 31 minutes ago
Just another trillion, trust me bro.
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latexr 2 hours ago
Deleted because I realised I am not in the mood to argue with people who don’t read; don’t make an effort to understand an argument; or make shallow dismissals thinking they consist in any way of a valid point. There are more important things to worry about than internet randos (and that includes me, if you’re offended).
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hoofedear 2 hours ago
I think his “ALL AUTHORS” point was about how authors will use AI in some form or fashion during their process, and points to how he did with his google search and his AI Gmail response. I don’t think he meant all authors using AI for their writing. Here’s the snippet:

“Another thing that will happen is established authors will turn to AI for assistance, not just for writing but for research, cover art, editing, returning emails, having an assistant, doing marketing, and thousands of other things that haven’t been invented yet.”

I take it as a general, this-tech-is-being-shoved-down-our-throats kind of way

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senko 2 hours ago
Wow, what an epic misread :)
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economistbob 58 minutes ago
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luciana1u 44 minutes ago
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drittich 51 minutes ago
[flagged]
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jdw64 2 hours ago
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smilespray 2 hours ago
I think I saw an em dash in there, guys!
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