Where Did All the Public Bathrooms Go?
48 points by herbertl 2 hours ago | 70 comments

jeffnash 6 minutes ago
> Who ultimately determines the meaning of a public space: its designers, authorities, or the people who use it?

Restrooms are unique in that they are available to the public but, due to their inherently private nature, are a place where it is difficult to enforce social norms. Because of this, within the confines of the restroom itself, the authorities are all but irrelevant.

I was scrolling through the addictive and easy to stumble into YouTube reels feature and came upon a livestream of a gentleman having some sort of 'public restroom party' in a stall. By this, I mean he had collected every roll of toilet paper available, shredded them into confetti, and was throwing the confetti up into the air while blasting music at full volume out of his bluetooth speaker. He had a few thousand viewers and people appeared to be donating money for supercomments. I didn't stay to watch the end of the livestream, but I don't imagine he cleaned up.

By the time the private-but-livestreamed confetti party is over, the damage is done. You can try to anticipate every single unwanted activity in a restroom and try to prevent it beforehand (e.g. tinted lights to prevent IV drug use), but someone, somewhere will find a way to creatively make the owners decide a few frustrated customers who are told "no public restroom" is a small price to pay for the alternative.

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strbean 56 minutes ago
I was in France recently and used a public restroom. It had an attendant, and a fee of €0.50. Charging for the restroom is unfortunate, but this setup is certainly better than eliminating public restrooms entirely.
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Cthulhu_ 37 minutes ago
The 50 cents is dual purpose, the one is obvious in that it pays for the attendant and them keeping it clean, but the other is like using a coin to unlock a trolley, it cuts back misuse by a lot. Once you've been to free vs 50 cent toilets a few times you'll see (and smell) the difference.
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ssl-3 19 minutes ago
The trolley analogy doesn't really hold up in this context, does it?

The incentive to do the right thing that a coin-deposit shopping cart ("trolley") adds is the ultimate return of that coin. It's not much money, but it is nonetheless returned when the cart is put back where it belongs.

If a cart always costs 50 cents and there is no hope of ever getting that money back, then: The monetary incentive to return the cart doesn't exist.

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ostacke 14 minutes ago
Well, even if you don’t get your 50 cents back you usually have an incentive to leave the restroom when you’re done.
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ssl-3 12 minutes ago
Does stretching the analogy help to ameliorate the difference betwixt a payment and a returnable deposit?
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bluefirebrand 6 minutes ago
> If a cart always costs 50 cents and there is no hope of ever getting that money back, then: The monetary incentive to return the cart doesn't exist

The grandparent post is just talking about incentives.

I guess what you're saying is that if you pay 50 cents for the bathroom then there's no actual incentive to keep it clean because the 50 cents is gone either way, unlike a cart deposit?

You're probably right about that, but I also don't think most people actually need an incentive not to make a huge mess. I would put money that most messes in public bathrooms are caused by the people that the 50 cent charge filters out. The rest experience some social pressure from the attendant to keep things clean. If all else fails, the attendant can clean up a mess before the next person uses it

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indoordin0saur 36 minutes ago
Would much prefer this than what we have in NYC, which is go into a bar or cafe, buy something small and then use the restroom. Another thing I'll do sometimes is if I see a busy bar where the bartender isn't paying attention you can walk in, pretend you're looking for friends you're meeting, use the toilet and then sneak out.
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kazinator 51 minutes ago
That practically ensures that some people who have to go really badly, and for whom €0.50 is a big deal, will just drop their business on the sidewalk.
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seszett 35 minutes ago
The only place in France I have seen this happen was Paris and public toilets are free there. I haven't seen paid toilets at all in France for a long time, actually. Maybe in train stations though.
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kazinator 16 minutes ago
Yes; the inverse is not true; making it free won't ensure that it won't happen.
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strbean 28 minutes ago
This was a year ago in Nice for reference.
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seszett 22 minutes ago
Oh I don't doubt you, I was just reflecting that I think that paid toilets have largely been made free in the last 10 years or so.

But I'm sure there still exist quite a few, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were especially found in right-wing cities like Nice.

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ishouldstayaway 30 minutes ago
> but this setup is certainly better than eliminating public restrooms entirely.
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zamadatix 37 minutes ago
Somehow that seems ensured regardless.
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marssaxman 37 minutes ago
how is that different from what they'd do if the pay toilet didn't exist?
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cubefox 36 minutes ago
It also makes it more likely that hobos and drug addicts don't soil and destroy the public bathrooms.
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cube00 58 minutes ago
Strange "For the Classroom" question.

Men seeking same-sex encounters transformed the pissoir into something its planners never intended. Who ultimately determines the meaning of a public space: its designers, authorities, or the people who use it?

The law determines that public space can't be used for any sexual activity.

I'm not sure what constructive classroom discussion you can have when the example is based on the law being broken.

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teraflop 39 minutes ago
Surely there are all kinds of interesting and constructive classroom discussions to be had about lawbreaking.

Classrooms teach about reality (among other things) and there are many things in reality that don't involve obedience to the law, as it exists at a particular time and place.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

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ludwik 33 minutes ago
It sounds like, of the three options given, you are squarely in the “authorities” camp (although it seems to me that you interpret the question as asking what you believe should happen, whereas it appears to be asking what happens in practice). Wouldn’t it be interesting to hear the other points of view?
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xhevahir 49 minutes ago
They're probably talking about the sociological functions of the facility, not the set of legally permissible uses of it. (There's a pretty famous book on this particular application, Tearoom Trade: Impersonal Sex In Public Places.)
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smcg 49 minutes ago
That didn't stop... a lot of people.
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izzydata 2 hours ago
I am going to start calling the reduction or removal of minor things that helped society "micro regressions".
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Avicebron 2 hours ago
Is tragedy of the commons overused?
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mingus88 30 minutes ago
I’m not sure it’s a regression really

If you look at a graph of the world population it’s seems clear to me that freely available common resources are just going to continue to get overused and ruined as we continue to add people to the equation

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jihadjihad 57 minutes ago
Enpissification?
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nashashmi 49 minutes ago
Micro-regressions will largely be in the realm of charity and hospitality as society has aggressively embodied capitalism's cost and benefit analysis.
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bluefirebrand 28 minutes ago
Don't forget privacy

Feels like tons of micro regressions around our expectations of privacy these days

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readingnews 2 hours ago
This seems to be happening in public parks also. I visit two cities literally half way across the country from one another, and have visited them for decades. All of the public restrooms in the public city parks (which are quite popular with locals and tourists) are gone. First they closed them, then they tore down the buildings. Locals thought "oh, must be putting in new ones", but no, they were torn down and never replaced.
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vondur 37 minutes ago
Here in the SoCal area the homeless were taking over bathrooms to live in.
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MrDrMcCoy 2 hours ago
I want to know where the public water fountains went. Those are arguably a safety feature.
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redsocksfan45 50 minutes ago
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forinti 46 minutes ago
I used one these things in Portugal a few years ago.

They are definitely not thought for women.

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Simon_O_Rourke 2 hours ago
I think it stopped once public bathrooms became used for things other than taking a whizz
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expedition32 59 minutes ago
Yeah you have to actually hire people to clean them and patrol for homeless weirdos. Which is why in my country they cost money.

I never really understood the economics of public restrooms in America. Who pays for them?

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selectodude 53 minutes ago
We thought it was mean to homeless people to make them pay for bathrooms and made it illegal to charge. Then once bathrooms because a massive cost center, we closed all the public restrooms and made it a sex offense to piss outside. So now instead of making homeless people pay $1 for a toilet, we throw them in jail at a cost of $100k/yr.

Thank these folks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_to_End_Pay_Toilets_i... - the road to hell is paved with good intentions I suppose.

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8f2ab37a-ed6c 39 minutes ago
Having lived in SF, LA and NYC, I find it very hard to believe that the homeless or the addicts roaming the streets in big cities are being thrown into jail for much of anything short of overt violent behavior. You can see people drop a deuce in the middle of Mission St any day of the week and nobody bats an eye. As people say, "it's just a normal part of life in a big city".
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jerlam 40 minutes ago
We're not throwing the homeless in jail here, but all the streets smell like urine and you have to watch your step on the sidewalk.
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phainopepla2 21 minutes ago
Where are we throwing homeless people in jail for pissing outside?
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cnity 56 minutes ago
The public pays for them via taxes.
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addaon 56 minutes ago
> Who pays for them?

Americans. The same population as most of the beneficiaries.

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mosura 54 minutes ago
The problem with homeless is also what do you do with them when you find them?
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nitwit005 40 minutes ago
Several bathrooms at the openings to hiking trails near me had been smeared with feces. The local newspaper reported someone was caught and taken to a homeless shelter. I remain suspicious that simply resulted in the shelter's bathroom meeting the same fate.
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alephnerd 51 minutes ago
> I never really understood the economics of public restrooms in America. Who pays for them?

Local sales, income, and/or property taxes.

Municipalities, counties, state, and the federal government all have the power of taxation in the US.

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ssl-3 41 minutes ago
We all pay for it. We do this whether publicly-accessible restrooms exist or do not exist.

Everybody poops; shit happens. The only real question is: Where does this shit happen?

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kazinator 49 minutes ago
A pissoir is of little comfort when you badly need a shittoir.
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beardyw 52 minutes ago
Yes, where are you going to take a bath, in public.

It's interesting that this subject is awash with euphemisms. At least pissoir is properly descriptive.

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jonshariat 2 hours ago
Something else I've noticed, garbage cans are disappearing.

I had some trash in my car I needed to get rid of: McDonalds? None outside, Tacobell? none outside, CVS? none outside OR inside, The entire rest of that shopping center? nope.

Luckily gas stations still have them but its sad to see these community service type things disappear.

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devin 45 minutes ago
This reminds me of a story I heard (read?) a long time ago. At Disney World they had a rule about a garbage can being within a 10 foot distance of basically anywhere in the park. The logic was that when a garbage can is nearby, there is additional social pressure not to litter, and the result was that they were able to save money on park cleanup because people used the cans.

When I see lone overflowing garbage cans in big cities I think about this.

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etc-hosts 45 minutes ago
I haul my garbage home in my backpack like a good little global citizen but the lack of trash cans in San Francisco is crazy

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/SAN-FRANCISCO-Trash-c...

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hlynurd 47 minutes ago
You would think it's in the interest of whoever is responsible for keeping those areas clean to offer garbage cans.
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xahrepap 39 minutes ago
I live by a park. These places don't care for the same reason the park doesn't care: the wind blows it all in my yard, not their problem anymore.
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ssl-3 35 minutes ago
It would be, if the responsible parties were making rational decisions.
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curtisblaine 30 minutes ago
In city centers it's usually counter-terrorism: it's easy to throw a timed bomb in a metal garbage can and flee the scene, so they got rid of them (London did because of IRA, and of course now they have Islamic terrorism). Outside of city centers it's about (lack of) recycling: it's easier to check if you're recycling correctly in your home bin than public bins.
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tamimio 40 minutes ago
Blame the raccoons!
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curtisblaine 34 minutes ago
Fun that this article concentrates on gay sex restrictions and pressure by temperance advocates - two "enemies" that conveniently serve a certain social agenda - while public toilets, at least in Europe, died because of heroin users in the 70s and 80s (they used bathrooms to inject, often leaving their syringes behind, and that became a real problem and society-wide panic during the AIDS boom) and because of the increasing number of homeless people later - who used to clean themselves in public toilets with a sink and more often than not left them in terrible conditions.
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polski-g 2 hours ago
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tomjakubowski 54 minutes ago
Fascinating stuff. And what a logo.

> Starting a national crusade to cast away coin-operated commodes, Gessel told newsmen, "You can have a fifty-dollar bill, but if you don't have a dime, that metal box is between you and relief."

I'm sympathetic to this argument. Carrying around loose change with US-style billfold wallets has never been convenient, and back in the day you'd often find yourself without change for a bus fare or a pay phone and so on in a critical moment.

Today, though, almost everyone carries either a contactless credit card or a phone with an NFC wallet. I would pay $0.25 for access to a clean public toilet if I could swipe one of those instead of having to carry change.

LA Metro has these restroom facilities at their rail stations, which are free for a 10 minute visit but require an access code on your phone or a standalone entry pass. I've never used one, but heard great things. https://thronelabs.co/

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baggy_trough 42 minutes ago
Another example of completely counterproductive interference in the free market, this time eliminating public toilets more or less entirely because you can't make money from them and the state is too incompetent to provide them.
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Daviey 2 hours ago
They all look like lovely "cottages".
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zabzonk 2 hours ago
Hence one of the activities they are best known for - "cottaging".
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MengerSponge 22 minutes ago
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1248664709

Well-meaning activists lobbied to make toilets free, but they didn't build a base to support the continued use and maintenance of those now-free toilets.

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jmclnx 26 minutes ago
Same place free trash pickup went, gov do not want the expense of public bathrooms.

Here in the US, where I am all public restrooms were gone by the late 80s.

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testing22321 51 minutes ago
Friends were just in Australia and were immensely impressed by not only the ubiquitous public bathrooms, but also how well maintained and clean they are.

Tons of free to use BBQs too.

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baggy_trough 2 hours ago
They were lost due to the tender ministrations of the bottom quintile.
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ModernMech 2 hours ago
This is why anyone from Eastern PA knows Wawa is considered essential public infrastructure.
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gib444 37 minutes ago
In the UK, it's a big pub chain called Wetherspoons. City centres often have multiple of them too. I don't think any of the toilets need an access code, unlike a lot of other places.

You can get a £2 pint of cider or ~£1.80 half-decent coffee while you're there too

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bethekidyouwant 58 minutes ago
Just switch to porta-potties.
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micromacrofoot 2 hours ago
> Notably, they were only intended for use by men.

this complicates public bathrooms quite a bit, and ADA requirements do too... once you've got a place to sit and doors on rooms you've got the vagrancy and drug use problem

though China does ok with the model of a big room with holes in the ground and almost no dividers or affordances at all (everyone brings their own toilet paper, old people bring their own chairs)... they have public workers to hose them out

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mosura 44 minutes ago
Sounds like the Romans had it better than your description of the Chinese, though I am sure in the modern world someone would be stealing the sponges for unfathomable reasons.
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mring33621 2 hours ago
"Closed due to COVID-19"
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wmchen 48 minutes ago
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dayyan 2 hours ago
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farceSpherule 52 minutes ago
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