Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil
179 points by bookmtn 2 hours ago | 70 comments

hypfer 2 hours ago
This is a huge success, but it I think also tells us that the EU is further decoupling itself from the US. Slowly but steadily.

Which is obviously the right thing to do, but it's interesting that it's not just a hypothetical anymore.

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rexskimmer 19 minutes ago
They started developing this rocket in the late 2010s, way before the current US craziness (or the current level of craziness anyway). Independent access to space is always desirable for countries that can muster the resources, but this is just one of many companies that appeared back then as a response to SpaceX's initial success.
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Eupolemos 6 minutes ago
Eh, you can split us Europeans up into two camps; those who do not want to see the problem and those who couldn't look away.

The second camp saw the craziness when the later Bush was elected a second time.

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hn_submit 19 minutes ago
Multiple European nations gaining their own independent launch capabilities will merely result in the sinking of ESA and ArianeSpace. Look forward to lots of infighting in the near future.
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yellowapple 42 minutes ago
The EU already had quite a bit of non-EU spaceflight capability, both in terms of rockets and launch sites.
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decimalenough 37 minutes ago
I think you meant non-US?

Although Ariane's rockets are wildly expensive and uncompetitive compared to SpaceX.

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sidewndr46 31 minutes ago
No, counterintuitively Ariane is non-EU. It launches from South America
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Robotbeat 26 minutes ago
French Guyana is part of the EU, actually, in spite of being in South America. (Colonialism!)
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tekla 25 minutes ago
Last time I checked, France was part of the EU
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samrus 34 minutes ago
Cost decreases with scale. Spacex was also wildly expensive, it grew up thanks to government assistance
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Robotbeat 26 minutes ago
This is an inaccurate simplification
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tekla 23 minutes ago
> it grew up thanks to government assistance

Please give an example of gov assistance that was not a open contract to every private launch company in the US

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wand3r 13 minutes ago
Yeah, I really hate this revisionism of Elon as an extremely wealthy apartheid emerald mine heir who was a dumb guy who happened to get lucky at paypal and then stole all his money from the government while operating a car and rocket company. There is plenty to criticize about him, but SpaceX dramatically decreased cost to orbit which had reliance on Russian technology at the time.
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holoduke 31 minutes ago
No because of reduction of bureaucracy. ESA is the prime example of 1 engineer to 50 managers culture.
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atherton94027 42 minutes ago
The french always had Ariane??
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weinzierl 12 minutes ago
The Ariane is as much German as it is French. It is considerably Italian too.
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manlymuppet 37 minutes ago
I think we are stronger together. European technology has been critical to many important American space missions, and that should continue to be the case.

An ecosystem where we develop things independently is one where everyone loses.

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hypfer 31 minutes ago
Yes, definitely, but being together by choice instead of by necessity is vastly preferable.

Especially given that recent history has shown us that we're back to "power" being the only language spoken.

__

Rel: The ecosystem thing.

I would challenge that, because if there's one thing where the US has had absurd leverage over the EU (and world, for that matter), then it's tech ecosystems.

A healthy ecosystem would not be owned by SV/US alone.

So right now, we're not really "strong together" but rather weakly dependent. That should be remediated, and decoupling like this is exactly the tool for that.

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samrus 35 minutes ago
I dont think the EU is stronger when they get bullied and undermined by trump, or whichever american president decides to dust off trump's playbook in the future
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zormino 31 minutes ago
I think the stronger together argument implies good faith co-operation on both sides
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cyanydeez 35 minutes ago
The opinion of american billionaires is driving this.
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eps 32 minutes ago
> I think we are stronger together

That's pretty damn obvious to everyone with a half of brain, yet here we are being pulled apart.

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ph4rsikal 2 hours ago
It is indeed a huge success but it also underlines how far ahead the rest of the world is.
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hypfer 2 hours ago
I'd honestly rather like to use this opportunity to talk about that this is a success than returning to our regularly scheduled doomer loop.

A rocket launched into orbit from Norway. That's insane progress and worth celebrating.

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ericmay 56 minutes ago
I'd prefer to use this opportunity to talk about this as a success as well without this America decoupling nonsense doomer loop too.

Does anyone know if folks in Germany are posting about the huge ego and phallus shaped memes for this company doing something that SpaceX and Blue Origin were also doing? I'm guessing not, because the lens is "decoupling" and not "America bad" like so many felt inclined to report when our private companies were successfully launching rockets.

Anyway, congrats to the team at Isar. I like to celebrate these successes around the world as further space exploration, colonization, science, and economic development benefit us as a species and there is a lot of room for a lot of competitors.

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hypfer 53 minutes ago
You know.. the things I get flagged for, and then you post stuff like this.

I'm not even sure what to make out of that dismissal opener other than that you've apparently didn't like whatever I wrote.

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ericmay 49 minutes ago
[flagged]
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hypfer 47 minutes ago
I'm honestly not sure if this is the right platform then.

And that's coming from me, who is already tiptoeing the letter of the law in pursuit of the spirit of the law.

I don't see you contributing to the space here. Just to yourself and your self-image, maybe. Like.. not even trying.

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ericmay 37 minutes ago
Well, if you don’t think it’s the right platform for you there’s no need to post or engage with it. I don’t use traditional social media platforms for example.

> I don't see you contributing to the space here. Just to yourself and your self-image, maybe. Like.. not even trying.

In that same spirit your comment wouldn’t have been contributing either. You don’t like to see comments I guess about people talking about how far behind the EU is as it continues to be eaten alive by American and Chinese industrial policy, and I don’t like comments about “decoupling”.

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copper-float 25 minutes ago
Suggesting that we don't have to resort to these silly propagandistic tropes means we're not on the right platform? You've got it backwards.
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hypfer 22 minutes ago
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copper-float 35 minutes ago
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Barrin92 27 minutes ago
only four countries in the world have private/commercial space launch capacity, and SpaceX towers over everyone else so I'd say this is doing pretty alright compared to the rest of the world
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shevy-java 2 hours ago
That's good. The way how the USA changed makes any "alliance" void. Just look at how today the USA tried to hand over land of Ukraine to Putin, with incompetents such as Kushner. Agent Krasnov is serving all but the US population here - and he regards the EU as an enemy in addition to that. So, no more support to that crazy country. Canadians learned that lesson, the EU still has to learn it.
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ericmay 52 minutes ago
> Just look at how today the USA tried to hand over land of Ukraine to Putin

Was it the land that Russia currently controls and Ukraine is very unlikely to retake? There's a spectrum between ideological behavior and pragmatic behavior. If Ukraine gives up this land and achieves peace, maybe it's worth it. I'm not suggesting it definitely is but at least the US is trying to negotiate or find some sort of solution, even if it's not going well.

In retrospect the US should have prepared for war and been willing to fight to uphold what was agreed to with Russia but that would have been a hard sell.

> So, no more support to that crazy country.

Nah Europe will still support it. Nothing will change there. But if you want things to change, we can completely withdraw from NATO, move bases back from Europe where we see fit, and un-sanction Russia while no longer providing support to Ukraine in any fashion and no longer sell weapons to Europe. That would be a disaster for Europe, which is why I tend to think comments like this are either ignorant, or pro-Russia/Iran/China with the intent to further inflame whatever tensions exist.

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ben_w 26 minutes ago
> Was it the land that Russia currently controls and Ukraine is very unlikely to retake? There's a spectrum between ideological behavior and pragmatic behavior. If Ukraine gives up this land and achieves peace, maybe it's worth it. I'm not suggesting it definitely is but at least the US is trying to negotiate or find some sort of solution, even if it's not going well.

It wasn't the US's decision to make, certainly not without having talked to Ukraine.

And right now, well, this war will continue until one of them runs out of money. The EU currently appears to consider Ukrainian sovereignty in this war to be in their own national interests, so they will keep funding it. Who will support the Russian economy in the same way?

> Nah Europe will still support it. Nothing will change there. But if you want things to change, we can completely withdraw from NATO, move bases back from Europe where we see fit, and un-sanction Russia while no longer providing support to Ukraine in any fashion and no longer sell weapons to Europe. That would be a disaster for Europe, which is why I tend to think comments like this are either ignorant, or pro-Russia/Iran/China with the intent to further inflame whatever tensions exist.

You, and many like you, really need to stop thinking Trump's behaviour is something that can be easily undone. You write to suggest dissenting voices are pro-China: Trump's actions have already forced many in the EU to consider the USA to be a bigger threat than China.

This isn't us liking China, we think poorly of their human rights record etc., it's just that the USA has fallen that far in our eyes.

Just to make it specific: Which city do you live in? I want you to imagine it getting actually, literally, nuked by French or British missiles in response to the USA doing what Trump keeps saying he'll do to Canada or Greenland.

Actual nukes.

I hope that will stay imagination.

Trump has a lot of levers he could pull that would be de facto acts of war besides annexing allies like he says he wants to. Ordering all the tech companies to stop providing services overnight, even that might do it given current dependencies.

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ericmay 19 minutes ago
> It wasn't the US's decision to make, certainly not without having talked to Ukraine.

Didn’t suggest it was, but at the end of the day it’s the US who is the partner at the table who can make the biggest difference and bringing Ukraine in to the room with Russia will just result in conflict and no hope of figuring things out diplomatically. Of course any deal that the US attempted to broker would have to be agreed to by Ukraine as well. Everyone understands this.

> , and many like you, really need to stop thinking Trump's behaviour is something that can be easily undone. His actions have already forced many in the EU to consider the USA to be a bigger threat than China.

Ok then we should do what I mentioned. It’s over. Is the EU ready to abandon Taiwan? Because if not, and let’s not ignore the G20 statement nor Germany hemorrhaging jobs and pretend the EU is cozying up to China. The US can just do the same and partner with China if it decided to.

> I hope that will stay imagination.

It won’t because it’s hyperbole that can be casually discarded.

> Trump has a lot of levers he could pull that would be de facto acts of war besides annexing allies like he says he wants to. Ordering all the tech companies to stop providing services overnight, even that might do it given current dependencies.

Nah he can’t do that. Tone down the imagination and sensationalizing

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ben_w 9 minutes ago
> Didn’t suggest it was, but at the end of the day it’s the US who is the partner at the table who can make the biggest difference and bringing Ukraine in to the room with Russia will just result in conflict and no hope of figuring things out diplomatically.

How? The US no longer supplies military aid to Ukraine. They're not a partner at all, let alone the one "who can make the biggest difference".

> Ok then we should do what I mentioned. It’s over. Is the EU ready to abandon Taiwan? Because if not, and let’s not ignore the G20 statement nor Germany hemorrhaging jobs and pretend the EU is cozying up to China. The US can just do the same and partner with China if it decided to.

That's not even a coherent argument.

> It won’t because it’s hyperbole that can be casually discarded.

If you don't take it seriously enough to prevent it, your city gets nuked.

> Nah he can’t do that.

Legally, or de-facto? Because legally he shouldn't be currently exchanging missiles with Iran. Legally the White House should be intact. Legally the Epstein files should've been release. Legally he's got 34 felony convictions for things he wasn't allowed to do. Legally he couldn't do the big tariffs he announced. Legally they had no right to go after Anthropic when the company refused to let their software get used for military stuff. Legally, his "I declassified them with my mind" claim was nonsense and he should've had a ten year sentence for that alone.

Not only do we not trust him, we don't trust you, and I mean personally you but also collectively you, to hold him back.

You, personally, are an avatar of the problem us Europeans see with America, because you don't seem to understand how seriously we take this.

Please, for the love of wherever you call home, take this seriously. You write as if this will all blow over and things will return to normal, but this can only happen if you recognise fault.

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JohnTHaller 31 minutes ago
Russia's word has been ironclad each time it's been given to Ukraine previously. It surely would be the same this time.
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ericmay 18 minutes ago
So you don’t think the two sides should even try to find a diplomatic solution?
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gilliethefoil 2 hours ago
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blini-kot 2 hours ago
Plesetsk is also european soil.
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kylecazar 2 hours ago
They're using "Europe" as political shorthand for Western Europe
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seszett 2 hours ago
Kourou as well, although maybe a different definition of European.
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sisve 2 hours ago
Would maybe call it European territory but not soil. But yeah, as you say it's how you define it.
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ChrisArchitect 2 hours ago
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consumer451 4 minutes ago
Thanks for that video. Super cool that they got pro streamers NSF involved.
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capocasa 58 minutes ago
This is such a breath of fresh air
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GoGermany 23 minutes ago
o/
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milleramp 2 hours ago
Made with imipolex g?
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MisterMunchkin 2 hours ago
How can it be the first European rocket? There’s the ESA! Are you telling me we have all these organisations and none of them have ever launched from their own continent?
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loeg 2 hours ago
Europe isn't on or remotely near the equator, which is somewhat favorable for launches.
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smitty1e 55 minutes ago
> The German company Isar Aerospace launched its Spectrum rocket from Andøya Space Center in northern Norway today

To speculate, they could be targeting a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit

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Achterlangs 2 hours ago
ESA launches French Guiana. Since it is cheaper to launch closer to the equator with the extra speed provided by the earth's rotation.
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sisve 2 hours ago
For satellites that should be in Sun-synchronous orbit Andøy is a great place to launch from
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artisinal 2 hours ago
Really comes in handy to still have a couple of colonies near the equator.

It's also better to have the massive amounts of emissions far away from your own population.

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tristanj 2 hours ago
French Guiana is not a colony, it is a region of France. People who live there have the same constitutional rights as anyone living in mainland France.

It has the same status in France as Alaska does in the US.

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pjc50 30 minutes ago
It's a colony even if it's legally part of France.

(Had to check: free movement does apply to Guianans, but in the other direction it's not part of Schengen)

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TFNA 17 minutes ago
Guianans tend to get pissed off if outsiders suggest in any way that they are any different as a French region from l'Hexagone (the French mainland). Your banging on about colonies would not be well received there.
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BSDobelix 58 minutes ago
>Really comes in handy to still have a couple of colonies near the equator.

>It's also better to have the massive amounts of emissions far away from your own population.

That's the dumbest comment i read since a long time, thanks.

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hypfer 2 hours ago
> How can it be the first European rocket?

Not at all. You've missed the "Private" in the headline. And that it apparently is.

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xixixao 2 hours ago
Article says Western Europe, but Norway is in Northern Europe.

“First rocket to launch from Europe outside Russia” would have been perfectly correct.

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setopt 53 minutes ago
In the political sense, «Western Europe» is typically taken to be «NATO Europe», and «Eastern Europe» is «Warsaw Pact Europe». Which is different from a strict geographic definition.
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dmaa 2 hours ago
They launch from Guiana afaik
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echoangle 2 hours ago
French Guiana to be exact, which is a different country
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tristanj 49 minutes ago
Edit: Misread
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globular-toast 45 minutes ago
They meant French Guiana is a different country to Guyana... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guianas
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mytailorisrich 2 hours ago
The French used to launch their rockets from Algeria. Their first satellite was launched from there. Since then they moved to (French) Guiana.

The UK launched from Australia.

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verzali 2 hours ago
Fantastic job!
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GoGermany 26 minutes ago
o/
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shevy-java 2 hours ago
The sooner Europe cuts itself off from the US crazy billionaires, the better - on all levels (software and manufacture processes are the two biggest issues). Today we already could see the US surrender team crawling up to dictator Putin. Enough is enough - agent Krasnov needs to be isolated.
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manlymuppet 35 minutes ago
I don’t think America is so far gone. We have issues sure, but I for one still believe that we can be better.

Trump be damned, Europe and America are stronger when they work together.

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samrus 31 minutes ago
Americans have to hope that the US will move past trumo and not repeat that mistake, but for europeans its most prudent to prepare for a world where such a corrupt wannabe distator doesnt have have that much leverage over them.

The US and europe would be stronger together if the US acted in good faith. Absent that, decoupling is the right choice

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arthurpatch 2 hours ago
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artisinal 2 hours ago
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hinkley 2 hours ago
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hn_submit 21 minutes ago
The Germans will now distance themselves from ArianeSpace and go their own way. Let the infighting begin!!
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