It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta
51 points by domhudson 3 hours ago | 72 comments

hpjev 2 hours ago
Mark Zuckerberg owns the majority of voting shares. It's his company, over which he specifically wanted to retain control. Therefore, calling on the board to reign him in is... Misplaced.

If you think the actions of Meta are wrong and should be prevented, you need to act on the regulatory level, not appeal to the very shareholders who profit off the behaviour.

reply
gdiamos 56 minutes ago
I liked how the article was aimed at Mark personally.

Not everyone gets super voting shares, but everyone gets a life and has to live on the same planet.

reply
foul 2 hours ago
Meta should just close. It's like wanting to change CEO for the dioxin factory.
reply
arcanemachiner 2 hours ago
Maybe they should rebrand again. It took a few renames to get the stink off of Blackwater (private military contractor).
reply
koolala 2 hours ago
Closing sale! 50%+ Off Sale on data for the majority of humans on Earth!
reply
Terr_ 2 hours ago
The idea of that data ending up in new undetermined hands may-or-may-not be a worse thing, but it reminds me of this bit from Making Money, by Terry Pratchett:

> 'Vetinari, are we to believe that you knowingly put the most important bank in the city into the charge of a known bank robber?'

> [...] 'Should he have left it in the hands of unknown bank robbers?'

reply
koolala 16 minutes ago
Is your username a reference to Terr_ _________?
reply
primitivesuave 2 hours ago
Rather than investigate all the things where investigative journalism could potentially make a difference to real human beings' lives, the Guardian has chosen to pursue a plea for the majority owner of Meta's voting shares (61%) to step down from his position of power. Let us politely ask Sisyphus to stop pushing the boulder instead.
reply
bluebarbet 2 hours ago
There's no reason to think this (silly) opinion piece is sapping the work of their investigative staff. In an attention economy it might even be drawing eyeballs to it.
reply
drcongo 7 minutes ago
They didn't do this instead of that.
reply
rurban 5 minutes ago
It wont get better with a replacement. Look at all the other big tech companies, it only gets worse.

Split it up as with AT&T Bell or Standard Oil, or stop complaining.

reply
throw03172019 3 hours ago
I’m not sure the next CEO would do any better. The social media craze is built for addiction and that’s their business model. Investors won’t be on board, sadly.
reply
21asdffdsa12 2 hours ago
Has there ever be a social media plattform that cheered you on for Self-Improvement? DuoLingo comes to mind or some DIY project- like building a piece of furniture?

Just not rewarding flexing, but creating and world improving?

reply
domhudson 14 minutes ago
Instructables.com used to be very much like this. The community was built around people posting guides for building DIY projects, with some of them being extremely impressive and creative.

I just took a look, and it appears to have changed now though. At least, from the logged out perspective.

reply
SweetSoftPillow 2 hours ago
Duolingo has nothing to do with self improvement, it's just a shiny presentation for highly addictive game.

We should reward quality of engagement, not just length of it.

reply
watwut 2 hours ago
People love to hate Duolingo, but I actually learned things on it getting real results. And it showed me that language learning does not have to be massive suck.

All in all, it is actually one app that is beneficial or at least harmless.

reply
TFNA 36 minutes ago
When did you use it? It was a more authentic language-learning tool in the beginning, but was then gradually enshittified in order to maximize engagement on the platform, not actual language mastery. A lot of the most competent language-consultant staff were let go, too.

Today on the shadow libraries, you have your pick of a number of self-teaching textbooks for free, allowing you to find an approach that fits your learning style. No need to rely on a dodgy corporate app.

reply
ACCount37 2 hours ago
"Quality of engagement" is as hard to measure as "length of engagement" is easy.
reply
nicce 2 hours ago
Duolingo has joined to the addiction club
reply
sznio 2 hours ago
I think everyone is infected by doomerism.

Why care about the long term consequences if the world is going to be over in the next 20 years.

reply
stuaxo 2 hours ago
At the billionaire level that seems to be the case.
reply
alansaber 2 hours ago
Actually, they all seem solely interested in the future. The bunkers are a drop in the bucket for them, so why not?
reply
flippingheck 2 hours ago
> through every scandal, Zuckerberg’s net worth has climbed to nearly $200bn, according to Forbes. Fines mean nothing to those with wealth like his, so the first step to safeguard society is to give Meta a fresh start without Zuckerberg’s influence on future products.

What is the author's model of a company?

reply
gizajob 2 hours ago
It’s The Guardian - they just propose left-wing hyperbolic noise with no connection to the real world rather than offer any kind of solutions. Not even aware that Zuck is the biggest shareholder and has all the voting rights, it’s his baby and he owns it, he doesn’t have to resign to make the world a better place in The Guardian’s favour.
reply
tonmoy 2 hours ago
It’s an opinion piece
reply
graemep 2 hours ago
Read the last paragraph it calls on the shareholders to push back on Mark Zuckerberg. He owns most of the voting rights so its effectively calling on him to push back on himself.
reply
gottheUIblues 2 hours ago
It's an article written by a guest contributor - not an editorial written as the voice of the newspaper
reply
gps372 2 hours ago
Facebook doesn't even listen to countries beyond tier 2 as per their own disclosures - https://www.theverge.com/22743753/facebook-tier-list-countri...

I very much doubt that they listen to countries in tier 1 and 2 also. If not for the fear of US's relatively stronger regulations, don't think Meta would even pay attention to any complaints in US either.

This would not change with the change in leadership in Meta simply because 18Bn is fairly affordable for Meta's scale, but they should be worried about setting the legal precedent (though they denied any wrong doing).

Other countries may not have the same ability to impose penalties owing to their weaker laws also.

reply
ArtTimeInvestor 2 hours ago

    The CEO is the throughline in a history
    of billion-dollar blunders
Since the IPO, he created an annual ROI of 21% for his investors. Taking risks means blunders are part of the way I would say.

For comparison:

He outperformed the Nasdaq 100 which made 18% (plus dividends) in the same time.

And he way outperformed Warren Buffet who made 14% in the same time.

reply
_ink_ 60 minutes ago
At what price, tho? He harms children, he hijacked the attention of billions and helped the rise of facism and hate, which if not addressed will lead into very dark times again, all for a measly 3% out perform?
reply
mkl95 2 hours ago
Mark Zuckerberg is the PT Barnum of tech and Meta is his predatory circus. Meta doesn't make much sense without him.
reply
gexla 2 hours ago
Interesting how the author compares the situation to smoking. Were any of the execs of the tobacco companies asked to step down because smoking was found to be harmful to health? My guess is they simply continued and adapted based on how they could remain a profitable company with continued shareholder satisfaction.
reply
bch 50 minutes ago
> Last week, Meta[...] agreed to a settlement of up to $18bn [...].

>

> But if Meta is truly interested in prioritizing the safety of users [...]

Where did that "but" clause come from? Has that ever been a priority?

reply
dumberquestions 2 hours ago
I wonder what's the net value Meta offers for the world today. I had a similar thought about Elon the other day, for all his billions, only several million people use Tesla or Starlink, and SpaceX is cool I guess, but value and wealth don't seem to be strongly coupled. How many Tesla investors have managed to cash out and how many of Facebook's advertisers managed to turn a profit?
reply
ben_w 2 hours ago
Aye.

> How many Tesla's investors have managed to cash out and how many of Facebook's advertisers managed to turn a profit?

It me. That said, I didn't buy TSLA because I was expecting to cash out a few years later when he started acting like a threat to democracy and his own judicial system; when I bought it I thought they had a good business model and I thought they were undervalued.

Now they're overvalued, have lots of visible competitors eating their lunch.

Worse, even if they succeed, given Musk has yet to pay out dividends on that stock and also enough control over the board to give him as many shares as he wants, I think even success would render the stock monopoly money.

reply
alansaber 2 hours ago
We've rediscovered the need for academia from first principles
reply
rapsey 2 hours ago
Musk probably made more dollar millionaires than anyone in history. Facebook advertisers use it because it works and reaches a hell of a lot of people.
reply
dumberquestions 24 minutes ago
I don't think Facebook advertisers are being particularly irrational, it's just very interesting to point out how this ad business, despite leaving most of its users ultimately unsatisfied, can be so profitable.
reply
bob1029 2 hours ago
Meta could drop a new feature tomorrow and have the tech media in a shambles within 15 minutes. Their product family is used by 3.6 billion people every day. OAI and Anthropic are still measuring per month.
reply
gdiamos 2 hours ago
we will look back on it as the big tobacco of our generation
reply
alansaber 2 hours ago
No, that will be the gambling endemic in every aspect of our society.
reply
gdiamos 2 hours ago
OxyContin, Enron, WorldCom, Super-size-me, Pets.com, Asbestos in the ceiling tiles...

It was always burning since the world's been turning

reply
tristanj 40 minutes ago
This article is very shortsighted.

If you think Meta is bad now, just wait until Zuck is replaced by a soulless, profit-obsessed corporate CEO whose primary job is maximizing shareholder profit. Meta as a company can get far worse.

People should really be careful what they wish for.

reply
jstummbillig 2 hours ago
WELL THEN, if Joan Donovan thinks so.
reply
majorbugger 2 hours ago
Honestly, the world has grown past the need for Meta. I would not cry if it completely shut down, problem is, what will fill the void? It would be nice to have something not controlled by Big American Corporation (or Chinese, or any, for that matter), but somehow I don't see it happening.
reply
XorNot 2 hours ago
Okay but like, you can make that happen. You can just stop using it.

Interestingly I did learn of a niche which is completely unserved except by Meta recently: child-locked messaging apps.

Messenger for Kids basically does everything you want it to - restricted functionality, restricted contact lists etc. I won't use it, but I only found out about it because I was hoping someone had built a Signal client which did exactly that.

reply
herbst 2 hours ago
What void tho? The majority of people _I know_ below 40 don't use Facebook or any related service at all.
reply
jmcgough 2 hours ago
The people you know aren't exactly representative of the whole country. Most people I know are on instagram.
reply
herbst 50 minutes ago
When I open Instagram that is still connected to all my old friends, class mates, travel buddies and whatever I get 90% third party ads and 10% posts that might even be a few months old, and most of that is just "look at me" type of content.

So I have to assume it's dead

reply
spunker540 2 hours ago
Do they use Instagram or WhatsApp?
reply
herbst 51 minutes ago
> or any related services.

So nah, most don't. I know some do, but the main socialisation isn't happening there.

reply
esskay 2 hours ago
I always find it surprising when I hear of someone younger using facebook. I associate it with retired/elderly folks who love posting cryptic messages about their health or how their day has gone wanting attention.
reply
tedggh 2 hours ago
Most people under 40, 30 and even 20 I know are on Instagram, and many under 40 and 30 are on Facebook. Maybe it varies with country, education level or some other factors.
reply
herbst 54 minutes ago
[dead]
reply
shreedx 2 hours ago
I think you're forgetting that Meta owns Instagram and WhatsApp.
reply
herbst 57 minutes ago
I am not forgetting that no. Signal and Telegram are the main drivers and Instagram is just as dead as Facebook itself is.
reply
dmortin 2 hours ago
It's different by location. E. g. in Europe many people uses Facebook, many under 40s too.

In the US: 25–34 years: Around 25.7% to 25.9% (the largest single demographic group).

reply
herbst 56 minutes ago
Central Europe here myself (Switzerland to be precise) signal and telegram are the dominant IM and Instagram is just as dead as Facebook, sure some might use it but nobody expects anyone else to to.
reply
majorbugger 2 hours ago
It's still used for stuff like events or groups
reply
0x70run 2 hours ago
[dead]
reply
drstewart 2 hours ago
Or European, for that matter. Don't fancy submitting my ID to get access.
reply
thih9 2 hours ago
So says The Guardian, while showing me an illegal “Reject and Subscribe” tracking banner. Mixed messages.
reply
bluebarbet 51 minutes ago
Doubtful that it's illegal, they have lawyers. Hard to say it's unethical either given that there is a clear option to pay instead of be tracked (which is in any case trivially defeated by an ad-blocker). For centuries until yesterday people paid for journalism like they paid for any other service.
reply
faryadz 2 hours ago
We haven't see any meaningful improvement from Meta for years.
reply
rich_sasha 2 hours ago
Eh dunno. My impression is that from the PoV of his notional bosses - Meta shareholders - he’s doing everything ”right”. Revenue up, addiction/recurring revenue stable, keeping fines low.

I’d be happy to see Meta gone altogether, but unless I missed the memo, Meta isn’t particularly upset about what it’s been up to (beyond bland press releases).

reply
einpoklum 2 hours ago
> But if Meta is truly interested in prioritizing the safety of users

Why would it be interested in that? It's interested in increasing shareholder profits.

> It's time for Mark Zuckerberg to resign from Meta

What, like in the leadership of a political party? Meta does not work for the public good; if anything, it's rather the opposite. And it's not like another one of their people would change course and work and make it a public benefit company.

reply
anilgulecha 2 hours ago
> put safety above profit.

I think does not reflect the reality of how competitive capitalism works.

reply
leptons 2 hours ago
If "competitive capitalism" is how you want to frame it, then Zuckerberg should have been thrown out for essentially burning $83 billion dollars on a VR world that is never, ever going to pan out. That's going into a hole at over $400k per user. It's a disaster and any CEO of any functional company would be out on their ass, but Meta and Facebook are quite dysfunctional.
reply
raverbashing 2 hours ago
He's not going to

He went out of the way to make his company structure prevent that (also Elon)

reply
kingkongjaffa 2 hours ago
Absolutely idiotic take. Why is the Guardian peddling this opinion piece?

Stepping down as CEO would do nothing, so unless you plan on forcing him to sell his share IDK what the point of the article is.

Mark Zuckerberg (13.68% equity; 61.2% voting)[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_Platforms

reply
gizajob 2 hours ago
They peddle confusion, not solutions or sense.
reply
d--b 2 hours ago
Sometimes, the Guardian publishes articles like this that just serve no purpose.

Zuckerberg is never resigning from Meta. Investors don't want him to resign from Meta.

What it is time for, though, is to ask ourselves as a society if the ad-fueled privacy-infringing depression-triggering attention-grabbing social media feeds are worth it.

People used to smoke. Now they dont. Change is possible.

reply
stinkbeetle 2 hours ago
> But if Meta is truly interested in prioritizing the safety of users, the board should request the resignation of Mark Zuckerberg and restructure to put safety above profit.

It is singularly idiotic that people think people, companies, boards, governments, or anyone else should be "good", and that society will progress by rooting out "evil" ones, as adjudicated by their own standards.

People and by extension companies of people and by extension corporations, NGOs, governments, and everything else in society behaves according to incentives. "Safety of users" or "approval of The Guardian employees" does not rank particularly highly in the incentive scale next to money for anybody, least of all Facebook shareholders, lol.

The factors that influence behaviors are pretty simple. Money, negative money, threat of judicial or ultrajudicial retribution, etc. The people as a whole have levers to pull in order to shape society as they would like. Wishing for good and praying for evil to be dispelled are not among them, that's just like any other superstition.

reply
alansaber 2 hours ago
Unfortunately framing everything as incentives is the only non-emotional way to analyse these meta-behaviours (get it?).
reply