A Necessary History of the Oddest Letter: W
41 points by NaOH 2 hours ago | 26 comments

Sharlin 45 minutes ago
The history of W in Finnish is interesting (for some values of "interesting"). Mikael Agricola [1], a Lutheran clergyman, essentially created literary Finnish from scratch in the 1500s (before that, Finnish had existed solely as a spoken, vernacular language, with official business conducted in Swedish (or German), and until the reformation, the language of the Church had of course been Latin).

Agricola had to create an alphabet for Finnish, and naturally borrowed heavily from Swedish and, to a lesser extent, German. His orthography was not particularly self-consistent, and for example the /u/ and /v/ phonemes might be written as either "u", "v", or "w" in Agricola's works. For example, the word uusi (/u:si/; "new") was written by him as "wsi", indeed using "w" as a literal "double-u". The /w/ sound did not exist in spoken Finnish.

Over time, Finnish became the almost entirely phonetic language that it is now, with letters matching phonemes essentially one-to-one. /u/ was regularized as "u" and /v/ as "v". As /w/ still doesn't exist, the letter "w" is very rarely used, mainly in some surnames as an alternative spelling of "v". In loanwords "w" becomes "v" (e.g. "whiskey" -> viski). Phonebooks also used to collate "v" and "w" as the same letter. Finns with a thick accent (see "Rally English" [2]) tend to pronounce the foreign /w/ as /v/ when speaking English, similar to Germans.

Today, imitation of Agricola's orthography is the Finnish version of "ye olde English", used for humorous or intensifying effect. For example, the word vanha "old" might be spelled "wanha" in the name of an antiques shop. "Wanha" also used to be a standard "old news" reply on IRC, especially to links that had already been pasted by someone (and this became so annoying on some channels that it became a kick-worthy offense).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikael_Agricola

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_English

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zarzavat 2 hours ago
Would be remiss to not mention W's biopic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg2j7mZ9-2Y
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olexsmir 44 minutes ago
just come here to link this video...
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AnodicElegy 2 hours ago
The most irritating way in which W is odd is that it requires three syllables to name, while all the other English letters are monosyllabic. This leads to many unfortunate situations where it takes substantially longer to say the acronym of a title than to say the title itself. Take for example, the World Wildlife Fund, which contains four syllables (or maybe five, depending how you pronounce "wild") and whose acronym contains seven. Given how many acronyms contain the word "World" in particular, this is clearly a massive inefficiency in the way we go about our lives. I've started a campaign to rename it something reasonable like "woo" or "woe", but neither Reuters nor the AP seem particularly interested.
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lynndotpy 8 minutes ago
[delayed]
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anon_cow1111 2 hours ago
Stupid, but related amusing nostalgia:

By default. Unreal Tournament 2003/4 used to have in-game text chat that would use the "Microsoft Sam" voice synthesizer to read player messages aloud to everyone in the room... MS Sam took so long to pronounce the letter "W /DoubleYou" that you could just go into a server and a drop a 512 character "W-bomb" and leave. Everyone in the room would have to listen to several minutes of dubbayou's assuming they never turned off the voice feature.

(I miss those days of genuinely annoying but still apolitical random trolling)

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ortusdux 49 minutes ago
It's also the only letter that is not used in its own pronunciation. It really breaks the cadence of alphabet books!
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nkrisc 2 hours ago
Or, of course, WWW (world-wide web) where each word of the acronym is itself a single syllable. This means the acronym is 6 syllables longer if you were speaking it.
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jfengel 2 hours ago
In German it's called "vay". That's brief, and gets a few million people on your side.
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anamexis 2 hours ago
Counterpoint: Ypsilon.
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k__ 55 minutes ago
Fair, but Y isn't used much in German.
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yongjik 48 minutes ago
The name for "Y" starts with a "w" sound, so why not make it symmetric: let's call "Y" why and "W" yay.
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fdcjjrvdcg 21 minutes ago
Ok I hate this and I love this. Yay indeed!
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pavlov 53 minutes ago
It’s commonly called “dub” when brevity is called for, as in “dub dub dub” = www.

Or is this just a tech industry idiom that I’ve been taking for granted…

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roryirvine 44 minutes ago
Though it does make you sound like a boy scout...

Wuh works better, imho, though it does tend to degrade into "wuh'uh'uh" when said quickly.

The BBC tried very hard in 1994/5 to persuade people to pronounce "http://www." as "hit web" - thankfully, that failed to gain any traction whatsoever.

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fdcjjrvdcg 22 minutes ago
I don’t know… I always had a soft spot for “hit web”. Makes it sound so cool. It’s dumb but I quite like it :D
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ButlerianJihad 5 minutes ago
We proposed “dub-three” in accord with a guy who was fighting the Clipper Chip
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dyzone 9 minutes ago
W is "double u"
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Razengan 7 minutes ago
And that's why it's my favorite letter :)
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ButlerianJihad 7 minutes ago
The erstwhile World Wide Wrestling Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_trademark_dispute
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Sharlin 44 minutes ago
Not to mention "www", which when pronounced is actually three times longer than its expansion.
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andsoitis 2 hours ago
> I've started a campaign to rename it something reasonable like "woo" or "woe", but neither Reuters nor the AP seem particularly interested.

I support your campaign. Other candidates: wa, weh, wu

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MrBuddyCasino 2 hours ago
In German its „weh“. But then V is „phau“, so its not as easy to confuse as in English.
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tgv 30 minutes ago
So why did I learn doppel Vau then? Has there been a change of heart?
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andsoitis 2 hours ago
I know German.

In English, I don’t think vee and weh would be confused, but I’m partial to wa.

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BoorishBears 2 hours ago
Why not simple, W: making a mouth shape as-if to say "What", then sharply exhale a puff of air instead
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neuroelectron 2 hours ago
(U ω U)
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