You build your OS atop thousands of open source packages, many of which contain AI generated code. Are you going to audit them one by one and remove offending packages? What about the ones you won't remove because the OS would be irreparably broken?
I have yet to understand how maintainers can't distinguish beyond (1) PRs that literally include Claude co-author notes or (2) low quality code contribution regardless of the creator.
PopOS is Ubuntu with extra problems. Ubuntu itself is fine, but then PopOS adds weirdness.
Cosmic has been in beta for how long ?
I daily drove the alphas before the betas, and of course there were a couple rough edges. But I had a minimal working desktop instead of sway or KDE/Gnome (too heavy).
It has been releasing non-betas for a good year now, and it's been a smooth sailing.
They aren't saying that AI produces bad code or is terrible for the world in some way.
It's mainly just resulting in a lot of PRs that they don't have enough time to review or features they don't plan to add.
Being hand written is no guarantee of high quality, just like using LLMs is no guarantee of low quality.
I’ve read a lot of code hand-written by programmers. By smart and hard working people. And I know from experience that the code the average programmer writes is not great either.
This is just really silly.
The more I think about this the more I think it's like self-driving cars. We have this expectation that self-driving cars MUST be 101% safe and never get into any accidents, ever, before the technology is worth adopting. LLMs are the same -- it's like we think if you can't one-shot a prompt and get perfect software out of it, it's failed. You can choose to spend time getting the LLM to refine the code it's written, review the architecture, come up with an actual engineering process around the LLM. Yes that means you'll be producing less code per time spent -- which is a good thing.
I think a PR "in flight" shouldn't have been closed like that.
All this will do is push out developers like you that honestly disclose, and instead people will now just lie.
For example, I was helping work on an open-source game engine earlier this year with a longstanding text rendering bug dating back to around 2021 that prevents the engine from being production ready, which the community and myself have developed extensive workaround for. So, one day I've finally said enough and got Claude to debug it. It took Claude 10 minutes to find the bug, it was 3 lines of code change in the renderer (yes, three).
So, I wrote up the regression tests, documented the bug and opened up a PR for the fix, thinking it'll get merged in like less than a week and then we can all move on. The maintainers received it fairly well on the PR, but the PR sat there for nearly 6 months, unmerged, until it finally closed from a bad squash upstream. I'm pretty sure the bug is still there too.
And as a side note, I would be ecstatic if someone wants to contribute to my Github projects with their AI.
I think even amongst the HN and Linux userbase, pop_os is still niche, let alone amongst normies who never heard about Linux. So they can afford take the high road and treat it like their personal sandbox, accepting only human written code.
But larger and more important projects like Fedora and Debian are more pragmatic with the fact that they'll have to accept AI written(but human reviewed) code, if they wish to keep up with the real world development and threats, as expressed by Linus Torvalds himself.
The thing is, the cat's out of the bag on this one now, especially in the field of pen-testing and reverse-engineering. AI can brute-force its way into projects in ways that beat even experienced researchers, so your only choice to keep up is to accept the use of AI generated fixes as a counter defense.
Consider that it's packaged for many well-known distros, so pop_os install base alone doesn't tell the whole story: https://system76.com/cosmic/download
If that's your threat model then you shouldn't use any SW in exitance, FOSS or otherwise. In fact you shouldn't even go online, or even outside you own house, since one single bad actors exist everywhere. You can walk down the street and suddenly someone in a car runs you over(witnessed myself). And yet live goes on.
Because your comment didn't disprove that Cosmic DE isn't too niche for bad actors to get involved.
Then they shouldn't reject AI aids to help them patch vulns of bad actors faster, no?
(I wasn't able to make it work on a scrap Dell I tried it on because the GPU was too old. Booted the USB key and COSMIC greeter failed to start)
1) Firstly, your source plase? My research according to Google Gemini 3.8 Pro shows top 5 DEs are as follows:
+---+---------------+------------+-------------------------------------+
| # | Environment | Est. Share | Primary Ecosystem / Defaults |
+---+---------------+------------+-------------------------------------+
| 1 | GNOME | 45% - 50% | Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, RHEL |
| 2 | KDE Plasma | 25% - 30% | SteamOS, openSUSE, Kubuntu, Manjaro |
| 3 | Cinnamon | 8% - 12% | Linux Mint flagship |
| 4 | Xfce | 6% - 9% | MX Linux, Xubuntu, low-spec PCs |
| 5 | MATE | 2% - 4% | Ubuntu MATE, Mint MATE (GNOME 2) |
| - | Others / WMs | 3% - 5% | Hyprland, i3, Sway, LXQt, Budgie |
+---+---------------+------------+-------------------------------------+
2) Secondly, keep in mind that distrowatch is not representative of linux userbase. MX-Linux kept showing up at the top spot for many years despite being niche.
3) And thirdly, TOP 5 DE isn't really an achievement when Linux DE market share is overwhelmingly dominated by KDE Plasma and Gnome as the majority shareholders, with XFCE and Cinnamon trailing. So Cosmic DE if it somehow made the no. 5 spot, would still be ignorable sub <1% market share, as I initially claimed, basically invisible to bad actors.
"Way too defensive" how? By asking and bringing data for my PoV?
>GP replying to you was clearly trying to have a conversation
As am I, except I ask for, and also bring data to back up my PoV, instead of vague opinions.
>Chill.
Where am I not being chill?
For funsies, I threw two different DE-by-marketshare inquiries at Gemini 3.8 Pro in separate sessions and it ranked Cosmic 12th in the first and 7th in the second. Very trustworthy stuff.
What part of what I said before was not "a normal discussions"?
>it ranked Cosmic 12th in the first and 7th in the second. Very trustworthy stuff.
And that disproves me how exactly? I originally said Cosmic is NOT a TOP5 DE, and the LLM data you posted shows IT IS indeed NOT a top 5 DE.
Do you have a better source than GP?
>if needed post the actual source
Define "actual source"? In good faith, I mean.
Where else do you get this information that's, quote, "actual source"?
What do you expect exactly? Do you want me to now manually parse through terabytes of information at your whim for your own convenience? Sorry, but I'm not your personal unpaid servant.
If you wish to disprove me in the comment section, then you need to do the manual work and show us that the my quoted LLMs statistics are wrong. I'm not your personal errand boy to do your bidding, 'massa'.
Did you just blindly trust the opinions of others on this topic, and yet I'm the one who has to provide peer-reviewable data for you to back-up mine? Sorry, I'm not your unpaid lackey. Try to formulate a better (counter)argument for why their baseless opinion is right, but my LLM backed up opinion is wrong, if you wish for a even-footed good-faith argument.
That is such a weird statement that I am not entirely certain where to begin. PopOS is hardly niche. Its base are all fairly common components by linux standards. And, more importantly, attackers and bad actors may other considerations in mind than sheer population size -- just to point out the glaringly obvious.
<< I think even amongst the HN and Linux userbase, pop_os is still niche
I think rather than trying to disprove it, I think I should ask why you think that? If anything, PopOS annoys me because it is just a step before ubuntu ( and ubuntu is just windows at this point ). Maybe I am defensive, because my first real distribution ( that did not share disk with windows was popos )?
Do you think Netanyahu, Trump or Xi-Jinping are somehow secretly using Cosmic DE at home, to be worthy targets?
Bad actors have limited time, lives of their own and mouths to feed as well, so they concentrate their efforts where "the fish are" if they want to PWN someone for profit.
That's why Windows was the biggest target in the past for so long and why MacOS and Linux were ignored. Because most of the fish were on Windows.
Previously, time was the most precious resource. Now its tokens, and more cheaply at at.
If you assume Mossad and NSA are Token-maxxing every single niche FOSS project out there to cast as large as possible fishnet on hacking all Average Joes on the planet just in case, then maybe using Mozilla and MacOS gets you hacked too, maybe even visiting HN and commenting here gets you hacked by some zero days you don't yet know.
Where does this open-ended paranoia argument end?
Reminder that AI is quite stupid.
I'll trust the words of groups like curl (https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2026/06/10/a-human-in-control/), Linux, and even the infamously anti-AI Gnome (https://blogs.gnome.org/mcatanzaro/2026/10/02/the-era-of-sof...) that AI is finding real vulnerabilities and you're your project a disservice by ignoring them.
Edit: Though Greg did recently have a talk (that I skimmed) where he was a little reserved on LLMs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnV_cWeoo5Q
Sounds reasonable, even to avid LLM users, I suppose. You have to draw a line. This line is too simplistic, but it'll work, for now.
In fact I've start doing that myself. Sending PR and convincing the maintainer why the fix is necessary is just too much effort.
Faith is the problem. Extraordinary claims must stand up to scrutiny. They do not.
PopOS is not a product being sold by techbros trying to pump their stock like AI is, it's free open source software, it doesn't need to "outcompete" anything. If you don't like it, don't use it.
My repos probably don't see as much traffic as SQLAlchemy though.
Which is why LLM PRs should just be issues (if there isn’t one already). Make the issue author a co-author on the PR. But let the maintainer actually oversee the LLM generated solution.
I have a hard time knowing if anti AI is a mental illness or propaganda coming out of China.
Unironically.
Separately, why would anyone use a Debian based desktop OS? Your $11 Amazon mouse won't work. An Nvidia card won't work. Just use Fedora.
Are you in Python by chance? Python has a lot of crazy hidden/inexplicit/spooky action at a distance stuff (especially in the frameworks) that can make LLMs gunk up code by defensively programming or just burn context chasing data provenance
I’m saying it’s probably multiple factors and both you and GP are right.
Save your "you're holding it wrong" if you're not going to suggest how to hold it.
Cult speak escape hatches are intellectually lazy.
https://github.com/NousResearch/hermes-agent is 99% (just a guess) LLM generated. 1140 closed pull requests this week. 1.5k closed issues. The github insights page for commits doesn't load for me presumably because it can't handle this scale of commits. But I estimate ~1K commits per day on average.
There's a blog entry https://nousresearch.com/refactoring-hermes-with-1393-agents that details some work that was done by LLMs to refactor and improve the code.
I guess they know how to hold it?
I had a look at the kind of issues that are reported at that project (there's 15k of them, so I can at best assess a couple). It looks like a complete mess: A lot of concurrency and resource mismanagement issues and edge cases that in a better-managed project would have been avoided by construction. They will now will likely be solved by more defensive programming, driving overall complexity ever upwards.
If you really want to check some quantity metrics to try to reason about code quality, look at whether "fix" PRs are overall LOC neutral or negative (not counting tests). In this project, almost every "fix" is an addition. Worse, almost every fix is more branching.
If almost every PR is some sort of fix, and most of them add branching, and there's thousands of them weekly... That leads to only one place and I want to be nowhere near it.
Show me an AI that adds features by deleting code (https://www.folklore.org/Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.html) and I'll pay attention.
Edit: My latest project is all GPT-6 Astra High. It takes a lot of steering to keep it from adding a bunch of, while useful, features that are not strictly enough to the point. That main issue is it’ll use a lot of extra tokens in the process!
What was your process?
A good workman shuts up and finds better tools without complaining.
The models aren't good at architecture and design. But they take direction on architecture and design and design well and can refactor code quite effectively. AI agents can absolutely be used to clean up vibe coded code bases once you figure out if the investment is worth it. The mess can be avoided if you give them sufficient guidance on architecture and design upfront.
That said, doing so purely in text form doesn't feel great right now. I've been thinking about UML lately. The problem with that was the roundtrip after the code was generated and then the implenetation happened. I don't necessarily think UML is the solution, but neither is walls of dense text.
Can you elaborate to back up this claim? WHat exactly is your yardstick for "being good at SW design and architecture"?
Because I found the current SOTA AI models being great at architecture and design, much better in fact than most average real-world devs. Is your yardstick just the John Carmacks of the world by any chance? Because most devs are not John Carmack. They are also not Linus Torvalds, they are not Stallmann, etc.
Maybe your LLM experience is still stuck in the 2023 era of ChatGPT?
Late 2025 also had a step change when agents could largely code autonomously without handholding like previously, and to be honest it's not worth hearing opinions about AI from before that time, that's how significant the change was.
Unlike a compiler it won't give up at the first sign of trouble but that just means it left alone it will dig bigger and bigger holes.
Treat prompt engineering as a discipline and refine your technique. When it produces garbage throw out the work and start over until you figure it out.
On the other hand asking these clankers "review the feature branch I wrote" and "review my entire codebase for bugs" or "help me debug this" has saved me months of prospective work.
And more recently most major models have been getting _really_ good at RE, for example you can have OAI models (and maybe A/'s if they don't refuse) use idalib MCP and reverse-engineer stuff from start to finish, then follow up with GLM 5.3 for vuln assessment and exploit PoC.
Stuff that used to take weeks or months now just takes a few hours, or less.
`total = dev + review`
If dev approaches zero, but you review at the same pace as you always have, are you in a better position? Yes.
Will you potentially have a backlog of code waiting for review? Also yes.
Would you prefer to be waiting for the dev team for all of the time instead, then still have the same amount of reviewing to do at the end of it? Absolutely not.
You say you used AI and your projects turned into unmaintainable messes, so your conclusion is that it means AI is not living up to its promises.
I guess if the argument is “AI makes it so you always get a great result no matter how you use it”, then your argument is sound. Your projects not working out proves that AI doesn’t always work no matter what.
However, that doesn’t mean you can’t use AI to create sustainable and well organized code. Failing to do something doesn’t mean it’s impossible and anyone who thinks they can is not paying attention.
I can’t run a marathon. If I went out and tried to run one, I would get a few miles and collapse, failing completely.
I don’t think it would be reasonable, though, at that point to say “running a marathon is impossible, anyone who says they can do it clearly lying. I tried and didn’t even make it 5 miles!”
I wish people would stop assuming their experience with something is the only possible truth.
As ai becomes better these people will begin changing their story because it’s utterly obvious what’s happening.