Stolen Renoir paintings found hidden, and damaged, behind cinder block wall
67 points by ohjeez 4 days ago | 45 comments

john_strinlai 4 hours ago
it seems crazy to me to steal a famous painting from a museum. the number of people willing to purchase a black market painting worth ~$millions is probably like a dozen, and the transaction would be super high risk. so many easier crimes to commit.
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dewey 6 minutes ago
From the documentaries I've watched it's usually the other way around. There's either already a known buyer, or the thief has someone in their circles that already knows how to sell it. So there's a middleman between already trusted entities.
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Aurornis 2 hours ago
> the number of people willing to purchase a black market painting worth ~$millions is probably like a dozen

You only need one.

With something like this I imagine you could hold on to it for years or even a lifetime waiting for the right connection to come along. Maybe some of them are even commissioned or pre-sold.

I can’t say I know anyone with stolen art, but over my lifetime I’ve known people across a range of wealth classes who got a thrill out of acquiring and owning something that was risky contraband.

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jimnotgym 34 minutes ago
If you can wait out the statute of limitations you can of course sell it. It seems that in France that is not a thing in stolen art from a public collection
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timcobb 29 minutes ago
You can't sell stolen art by waiting out the statute of limitations
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tough 2 hours ago
One would think most jobs are "by order" and thus the customer comes before the risk
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dennyabraham 3 hours ago
The numbers are higher than you'd expect. The trade in illegal (and so high rarity and limited access) goods is ongoing and flourishing via the use of third party intermediaries like free port systems [1] as well as networks of morally grey curatorial and preservation staff. Several notable archaeological "missing links" of the past few years came from said staff mediating access to private collections of undescribed provenance.

[1] https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2015/07/01/experts-identify-...

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tonyedgecombe 4 hours ago
For a while members of the mafia we’re stealing them to trade against their sentence if they got caught for some other crime.
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dofm 3 hours ago
Or, since it’s a Renoir, maybe they were planning to distribute them as punishment.

“Thought you were going up in the world, did you Salvo? Oh no, no Armand Guillaumin for you. The boss ain’t pleased and he wants you to know about it. One more screwup and you’ll end up with a face like that”

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john_strinlai 3 hours ago
i saw your other comment, and now this one. i dont really know much about art, and i'd love for you to help me understand your apparent disdain for renoir
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dofm 3 hours ago
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jerf 2 hours ago
Ah, the classic "picture is worth a thousand words" move. Well played.
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dofm 2 hours ago
I could have picked a considerably worse face, too.

But this is a painting of his own young son, Jean (who went on to be a legendary director, screenwriter, actor).

So one presumes there's a method in it, because nobody hates a kid that much.

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john_strinlai 2 hours ago
i did not know they did yaoi hands in 1800s france. point taken.
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Cpoll 2 hours ago
Renoir's kind of "pop" as far as Impressionists go. Laypeople like him because his work is easy to look at, but trained artists can find a lot to fault in his technique and composition. He was also kind of an asshole.
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SoftTalker 3 hours ago
Admit to additional crimes in exchange for a lighter sentence? How does that work?
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dh2022 2 hours ago
Plea bargaining. Green river serial killer admitted to more killings (and cooperated to recover some of his victim’s bodies) in exchange for avoiding the death penalty : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Ridgway#Plea_bargain,_con...
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DASD 3 hours ago
Crime gravity. If able to provide the solution to a crime that is considered more serious(or of greater value to the prosecuting entity's purview).
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akudha 44 minutes ago
So the lesson here is if you are a criminal - commit multiple crimes, hope in case you get caught then it is for a lesser crime, so you can trade secrets of a bigger crime for leniency?

I wonder what victims have gotta say about that...

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goodcanadian 3 hours ago
I doubt they admit to anything, but having some information that helps lead to the recovery of a valuable item could be worth something. To be honest, this is the first I have heard of the practice, but it sounds plausible to me.
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xp84 2 hours ago
"Hey, I don't have any idea how it got there, but I heard some guy talking about a famous stolen painting that's stashed right here in this neighborhood. Apparently a Renoir."
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YVoyiatzis 2 hours ago
Unless you’re keeping it for yourself…
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pelagicAustral 3 hours ago
I would've thought thats what crypto was meant for.
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embedding-shape 3 hours ago
> the number of people willing to purchase a black market painting worth ~$millions is probably like a dozen

Right, but what about your local brick dealer who has 10-50K to waste on whatever? Definitely way more common and easier than you think to unload these sort of things, once you go down in price a lot because of the circumstances.

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sandworm101 51 minutes ago
There is specific Italian law about return of art. This would normally apply to people who stole the art but a careful lawyer could use this law to negotiate a reduced punishment for organized crime charges. If the art theft is described as a part of a larger criminal enterprise, then the return of that art could trigger a 2/3 reduction in punishment. See below (translated by google).

https://documenti.camera.it/leg18/dossier/testi/gi0031b.htm

"is committed by the person who has collaborated in identifying the co-conspirators or has ensured evidence of the crime or has effectively worked to prevent the criminal activity from being carried to further consequences or has recovered or had recovered the cultural property subject to the crime (penalty reduced from one third to two thirds)."

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ericmay 3 hours ago
There are some “criminals” and criminal gangs and such, but I think the increase we have seen is due to Russia, Iran, and others who are giving extra resources and intelligence to some of these groups to deprive western institutions of their cultural heritage as part of the “hybrid war”.

Notice how things aren’t being stolen at this magnitude in China? Japan? If we’re Russian or Iranian for example I think this would be a great strategy if you view yourself at a civilizational war. Most of Europe is still asleep or in denial.

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BonerWiener 40 minutes ago
> Notice how things aren’t being stolen at this magnitude in China

Stealing from a Chinese museum would be extremely difficult. Cameras and security staff monitor exhibits during the day, and even after hours, extensive surveillance everywhere, makes it hard to get away unnoticed. The risk is simply too high

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ericmay 38 minutes ago
It’s difficult to steal from other museums too. I’m not sure I buy this argument. But let’s say it’s accurate - what about other countries?
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gvfsa 3 hours ago
I know posting deranged tirades about the supernatural powers of Russia is HN’s favourite pastime but this goes way too far.
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ericmay 59 minutes ago
What is “supernatural” about organized crime sponsored by Russia?
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xp84 2 hours ago
It's supernatural now to do crime?
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sitkack 12 minutes ago
It is supernatural to write code by hand, so yeah?
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blobdole 2 hours ago
"It was through interrogation work that investigators were able to get the receiver of the stolen goods to admit that he had indeed taken possession of the paintings."

Humans are always the hole in the security you build, no matter how good the wall is.

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glouwbug 56 minutes ago
Interrogation is great, you can even get people to confess to things they didn't even do (from IASIP or something like that)
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dofm 4 hours ago
You mean they didn’t brick it back up when they discovered it was a Renoir?

Missed opportunity IMO. It was where it belongs.

You know how Anthropic has banned being cruel to its models? I wonder if the definition includes asking it to generate images in the style of Renoir…

https://www.instagram.com/renoir_sucks_at_painting/

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/art-bites-renoir-sucks-mov...

(ETA: Flagged, haha really? Come on. It’s a well-known running joke.)

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ericmay 3 hours ago
What are you talking about? Those are some of the best paintings ever created. Anyone trying to tell you different is probably a fascist or communist. Both authoritarian and hate-filled ideologies that have no place in modern or future societies.
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ks2048 2 hours ago
Random fact: one of the socialist leaders of the Paris Commune saved Renoir's life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_Rigault

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ericmay 58 minutes ago
Hitler probably helped an old lady cross the street once too. Terrible people or those supporting authoritarian ideologies can still do nice things. They pet dogs and eat ice cream too.
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matkoniecz 2 hours ago
> Anyone trying to tell you different is probably a fascist or communist.

are you serious and it is your actual position or is it also a joke?

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ericmay 56 minutes ago
It’s an actual position. These kinds of ideologies hate “the good life” and consider such paintings either decadent (fascists) or supportive of the bourgeoisie (communists).
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dofm 3 hours ago
Fascists, communists, art critics, and people who can actually paint women’s faces.

(It’s a joke. Like Birds Aren’t Real)

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ericmay 3 hours ago
I see - sorry I couldn’t tell. There are a lot of lunatics out there.
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moffkalast 45 minutes ago
I though this was about The Swedish Job, but apparently this is a completely new Renoir theft? Did they not learn anything from the first one?
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Insimwytim 2 hours ago
for a split second branch prediction in my head replaced 'cinder block wall' in the title with 'paywall'
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jacquesm 32 minutes ago
As long as you are eventually consistent it is all good.
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