Quadrillion-parameter transformers and how to train them
30 points by frozenseven 6 days ago | 17 comments

joefourier 46 minutes ago
> Humans, by contrast, have ~100T parameters (counting each synapse as a weight) and learn from just ~200M tokens, a tokens per parameter of 1:500,000.

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison since (as far as I know) humans aren’t born with randomly initialised neural weights that are setup in a very generic structure, but have at the very least extremely strong inductive biases. I think it’s fair to count the hundreds of millions of years of evolution between the first animals with a primitive neural system and humans today, and the amount of “tokens” that were “trained on” is likely enormous. I think it’s better to consider the 200M tokens as a sort of “fine tuning” to a sort of genetic “pre-training”.

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derac 33 minutes ago
That 200M figure needs much more justification as well, humans recieve huge amounts of data through their senses, particularly vision and touch.
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smokel 16 minutes ago
A nice source for this might be "The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?" [1].

A lot of people seem to think that training is limited to the 10 bits/s of processing mentioned here. But raw sensor input (mostly visual) is in the order of 21 quadrillion bits per year [2], according to the same paper. It seems likely to me that learning uses much more data than is ultimately expressed in behaviour.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662732...

[2] Assuming 16 waking hours, and 10^9 bits/s of input that the paper mentions. 16*3600*365*10^9 = 21.024*10^15

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ziofill 8 minutes ago
I agree with you. Also I really doubt we can so easily tokenize the input to the human brain.
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spwa4 44 minutes ago
If those tokens were to be passed on they'd have to be encoded somewhere, like DNA. And in DNA, there's no room. So ... where are they?
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ziofill 3 minutes ago
This is such a beautiful question. It looks like a miracle that a brain, let alone a whole body, can grow from such little data. Michael Levin has been doing a lot of research on this, you should check him out.
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derac 35 minutes ago
The data is massively compressed and pruned. Where are the input tokens in an LLM?
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dingaling911 41 minutes ago
DNA is probably the seed for the random initialization.
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nico 7 minutes ago
This is actually a genius idea. Imagine being able to compress a 1T parameter model to 10M params by creating a lossy model-scaffolding, like DNA

Something that more or less guarantees you’ll get about the same capabilities as the original model, but with a different final expression of certain characteristics

I wonder if this could be a good distribution model too, selling “dried” models (almost like raisins - or the beings from the 3 body problem), and then you can buy them to fully train (raise?) with your own data

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wernam 31 minutes ago
It's nice to throw around claims like that, or like "microtubules connect the brain the quantum realm" (Penrose). Fortunately that's not how science works.
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dingaling911 28 minutes ago
Science starts with a hypothesis. If DNA has everything encoded, then it stands to reason that it influences the initial state of the brain.
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wernam 17 minutes ago
> If DNA has everything encoded

It is not. There are many biological examples of random processes generating patterns and weights, such tiger stripes, fingerprints, etc. DNA only encodes the reaction, but the pattern itself is seeded by initial position of random molecules, not the DNA.

> that it influences the initial state of the brain.

You've gone from "DNA is probably the seed for the random initialization", as in the deterministic seed for a PRNG, to "influences". Those are 2 different claims.

Most scientists will agree that DNA encodes the large-scale connectivity in the brain, ie from region to region, thickness of corpus callosum etc.

Most scientists will disagree that it is "probable" that DNA encodes/seeds the weights of each and every synapse.

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zardo 14 minutes ago
Tokens being passed on would be what, you close your eyes and experience your ancestors lives?
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notlibrary 28 minutes ago
The planet has 20 quadrillions of ants
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smokel 13 minutes ago
And several thousand quadrillon grains of sand.
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intrasight 2 minutes ago
There are more ways to shuffle a deck of cards than there are atoms in the visible universe.
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perching_aix 40 minutes ago
[dead]
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