To deter bioterrorism, U.S. imposes new rules on ordering synthetic DNA
51 points by Metacelsus 4 hours ago | 25 comments

AnotherGoodName 2 hours ago
I'm curious if this is related to some things the top AI models are uncovering.

We know we don't get to see the bio side of the top models. They're out there solving hard maths problems etc but a query with the word 'microbes' in it often kicks you back to a smaller model automatically.

Are the bleeding edge models finding something scary enough that can be done with synthetic DNA that it needs to be restricted asap?

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xbmcuser 10 minutes ago
Alphafold or something like that is more likely than the LLM models. Though cant say what an LLM model that uses Alphafold as a tool can do.
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epistasis 45 minutes ago
No not at all. The top models are not uncovering anything novel with DNA.

This is old stuff, being implemented and getting lots of news.

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siva7 14 minutes ago
How you know? The top models have a tendency to not tell what they're conspiring for.
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gr-mk 2 hours ago
This might impact me and a small handful of other people who have messing around with microbes in their apartment as a hobby. We'll see what happens.
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p0w3n3d 37 minutes ago
Yeah me too. Using Clorox on my toilet seat kills always 99.99% germs. The fun is with the 0.01% that's left
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__MatrixMan__ 3 hours ago
The device used to make oligonucleotides is pretty much an inkjet printer, from there it's cleverly applied enzymes to assemble the full strand. If you've got the skills and determination to get the synthetic DNA into a functioning cell, I don't think limiting access to synthetic DNA in the first place is going to stop you.
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car 3 hours ago
The device used to make oligonucleotides is pretty much an inkjet printer, from there it's cleverly applied enzymes to assemble the full strand.

Usually the synthesis of oligonuclotides is done with phosphoramidite chemistry [0]. So tell us more about those enzymes to make DNA molecules from scratch.

[0] https://www.twistbioscience.com/blog/science/simple-guide-ph...

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mbreese 2 hours ago
I’m pretty sure they were talking about how you can combine synthesized oligos into longer fragments when you are starting with smaller oligos. I’m guessing that they were referring to using different restriction enzymes from that point on.

Unless we are talking about really long oligos (which is harder and $$$), you’ll need some post-synthesis enzymatic work to get your full strand.

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fc417fc802 2 hours ago
Yes I also read the comment that way. The inkjet printer remark presumably refers to benchtop DNA synthesis machines which have been commercially available for a while now. (The linked article mentions the possibility of buy-back programs for old machines that don't enforce any restrictions.)

I guess it's not a bad idea to put basic hurdles in place but it would be a serious mistake to see this as any sort of comprehensive preventative. DNA just isn't difficult to manipulate.

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XorNot 47 minutes ago
The thing is DNA just also isn't dangerous. It's fragile and everything in the environment destroys it - as noted it's literally a everything else which is the hard part.

This reeks of the Longtermists getting their influence into government. They were doing an entire round on YouTube about a year ago.

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amirhirsch 52 minutes ago
Ansa Bio uses an engineered terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase (TdT) enzyme to synthesize the oligos themselves, rather than using phosphoramidite chemistry. Each enzyme is tethered to a single nucleotide, allowing it to extend the DNA strand by exactly one base. The tether is then cleaved and the cycle repeats.

This works in aqueous solution under mild conditions and enables synthesis of much longer oligos (~1,000 bases), which can subsequently be assembled into 50 kbp constructs.

Not sure about that inkjet printer analogy.

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3eb7988a1663 5 minutes ago

  But Esvelt points out the policy only requires screening for DNA sequences 50 base pairs or longer. A would-be bioterrorist, he argues, could easily stitch together a dangerous sequence from much smaller fragments ordered from multiple different suppliers. Esvelt says he has built an algorithm capable of screening sequences as short as 30 base pairs for their risk potential and made it freely available. “That’s the main flaw in an otherwise pretty great policy,” he says. “Don’t bother building a fence if there’s going to be an obvious huge gap in it.”
So, a song and dance of doing something that will most likely just inconvenience people doing real work.

Also, DNA chemistry is very well established. Someone with the appropriate background could easily assemble oligos without too much difficulty. I guess this stops Little Johnny from printing ebola from the internet.

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King-Aaron 3 hours ago
> U.S. government–funded scientists who make and manipulate DNA sequences will face tougher regulations

Seems like this has little to do with deterring terrorism then, considering the assumption that a terrorist may not be a US government funded scientist.

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0xDEAFBEAD 22 minutes ago
If you read the next two sentences it makes it fairly obvious that this is a plan to indirectly target suppliers. Federally funded researchers will be required to

"procure synthetic nucleic acids and benchtop synthesis equipment from U.S.-approved suppliers. Those vendors must verify their customers’ identities and screen orders for potentially dangerous sequences that, for example, could encode toxins or pathogens."

If this was just about feds self-policing, they wouldn't have the customer identity requirement.

Probably they're taking this route because AI is moving fast and Congress moves slowly.

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Glyptodon 2 hours ago
My guess is that the assumption is that US gov funded labs are enough of many suppliers revenue that it'll be effective, but I'm 100% speculating and it may be total garbage speculation given that I have no idea how much hobbyist level DNA projects are a thing or how much they're a thing for non-medicinal business purposes.
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CamperBob2 3 hours ago
Trouble is, that assumption hasn't always worked out in the past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Edwards_Ivins

But yes, this is stupid. No one who is inclined to build a biological WMD is going to be more than mildly inconvenienced by supply restrictions. DNA isn't plutonium.

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0xDEAFBEAD 27 minutes ago
Sounds like a fully general argument against any sort of security measure. "A dedicated thief won't be deterred by a lock or burglar alarm." Sure. I'm still buying that stuff.
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CamperBob2 20 minutes ago
More like, Danny Ocean isn't going to be fazed by your ADT Security sign out front or the Ring camera on your door.
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mapontosevenths 2 hours ago
When DNA is outlawed only outlaws will have DNA.
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DANmode 2 hours ago
Considering what we know about crowding-out in human microbiomes, this is probably way more relevant than the meme you were likely swinging for!
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janalsncm 3 hours ago
> It’s great, because it does something instead of nothing

I am detecting a bit of frustration here.

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InsideOutSanta 2 hours ago
Yeah, I'm assuming that was intended to be sarcasm.

(Also, my comment is great, because I wrote something instead of nothing.)

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unpleasurable 2 hours ago
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senor_digimon 2 hours ago
This sounds unbelievable, but hey, we have AI. Let's just keep pretending this is the regular rate of tech advancement ...

Carry on, everything is apparently fine.

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